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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: epicure who wrote (1816)7/19/2005 12:32:20 PM
From: epicure  Respond to of 541931
 
Member of Iraq Constitution Panel Killed By SAMEER N. YACOUB, Associated Press Writer
49 minutes ago


BAGHDAD, Iraq - One of the Sunni Arabs appointed to a committee to draft Iraq's constitution was assassinated Tuesday in a drive-by shooting, an Iraqi official said.


Mijbil Issa was gunned down, along with an adviser to the committee and a bodyguard, in the Karradah area of Baghdad, according to Mohammed Abed-Rabbou, another Sunni member of the drafting committee.

Issa was among 15 Sunnis named last month to a committee charged with drafting a new constitution by Aug. 15. The Sunnis were added in an attempt to reach out to the religious community at the heart of the insurgency.

However, two Sunni committee members had already quit because of threats from the insurgents who oppose the U.S.-backed, Shiite-dominated government.

The attack occurred as the committee was meeting at Baghdad's Convention Center on the edge of the heavily fortified Green Zone, home to the U.S. Embassy and Iraqi government offices. The meeting was immediately adjourned when the head of the commission Humam Hammoudi got the news, Kurdish member Mahmoud Othman said.

In other violence, gunmen ambushed a bus carrying Iraqi workers to a U.S. air base near Baqouba, killing 13.

Assailants in two cars attacked the minibus on its way to al-Faris air base, said Police Col. Mahdi Saleh from Khalis. Baqouba is 35 miles northeast of Baghdad. Another police official, who declined to give his name, said 10 workers were killed along with three civilians when the bus slammed into a nearby car.

Issa was preparing to leave a restaurant where he had lunch when two cars pulled up near his vehicle and gunmen inside opened fire, said police Lt. Karim Mahmoud.

Also killed were Dhamin Hussein, an adviser to the commission, and a bodyguard Aziz Ibrahim Ali. Their driver was injured.

The bloodied bodies of two of the men were carried on a stretcher and placed into the open bed of white pickup truck. The body of the third man was seen slumped in the back of a blue sedan before it was also placed in the pickup truck.

Hammoudi strongly condemned "this criminal act that targeted the Sunni Arab brothers. Terrorism is against everyone and not against a specific sect," he said.

"The aim behind the assassination is to hinder the political process but we will continue our work, and so will our Sunni brothers too, in drafting the constitution," Hammoudi told The Associated Press.

After the attack, parliament will guarantee security for all members of the commission, he said.

"Terrorist forces are responsible for the lack of security in Iraq and they are targeting political personalities, whether Sunnis or Shiites," said Ali al-Adeeb, a legislator and member of Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari's Dawa Party. "I think the Sunni brothers on the committee have the courage to continue in their participation."

Abed-Rabbou said the other Sunnis on the committee would continue their work despite the killing.

Before Issa's slaying, President Jalal Talabani said good progress being made on the constitution, although there are some "Arab brothers" who "have some reservations that are being taken into consideration."

"If we can reach an agreement with them, I believe the constitution can be ready by the end of the month," he said.

Talabani, a Kurd, did not identify the critics but he was clearly referring to Sunni Arabs who want a strong statement affirming Iraq's Arab identity and who oppose some definitions of federalism supported by the Kurds and some Shiite Muslims.

The Iraqi parliament has until Aug. 15 to adopt a draft constitution, which will be put to a nationwide referendum by mid-October. If approved, it will provide the basis for a new election in December.

Former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, a secular Shiite, said he supported using the interim constitution, approved before Iraq regained sovereignty from the U.S.-led occupation authority.

Some Shiites oppose the interim charter's limitations on the role of Muslim law as the basis of the legal code. Some Sunnis oppose autonomy guarantees given to the Kurds as a threat to national unity.

"Concerning the constitution, we are in agreement with the national and Kurdish forces that the interim constitution be the basis for the Iraqi constitution," Allawi said.

"I believe that will allow Iraq to have the constitution. As soon as the referendum on it is finished, Iraq will have stability," he said.

Violence has steadily escalated in Iraq since Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari announced his Shiite-dominated government in April. Most of the insurgents are Sunni Arabs, who enjoyed considerable prestige in Iraq during the rule of Saddam Hussein.

On Monday, gunmen killed at least 24 police, soldiers and government workers in Iraq in a series of small-scale ambushes and shootings.

A new security offensive in Baghdad has captured about 50 suspected insurgents, including two Syrians, in its first few days, an Iraqi general told the Associated Press on Monday.

Speaking under condition of anonymity for security reasons, he said Operation Thunder began last week on the west side of the Tigris River, which divides the city.

On Tuesday, Iraqi National Assembly speaker Hajim al-Hasani expressed his concern regarding the spike in terrorist attacks but also cautioned that recent calls to form militias in cities could prove problematic.

Al-Hasani said the presence of militias on Iraqi streets would represent a big challenge to the government and its attempts to impose security. Such a move could "open the door for the interference of regional and international forces in Iraq's affairs," he warned.

Instead, he called upon the government to speed up the process of building up security and the Iraqi army.

Elsewhere, a roadside bomb hit a police patrol Tuesday in northern Kirkuk, killing a police officer and a civilian, according to police Brig. Sarad Qadir.



To: epicure who wrote (1816)7/19/2005 12:49:04 PM
From: Lane3  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 541931
 
I'd say it was a politically motivated killing

I agree with that. Now, is that sort of specific, politically motivated killing a subset of terrorism? Of protest? Neither? Both? Or is it primarily a subset of murder? If someone murders Rove or Dean for his politics, is that protest or terrorism, neither, or both?



To: epicure who wrote (1816)7/19/2005 1:41:42 PM
From: MulhollandDrive  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 541931
 
Message 21518977

"so much for your politcal analysis"

considering the fact that i wasn't posting my "politcal analysis' to you , and considering the fact that you injected yourself into my commentary to kholt (whose response i was seeking)

by dismissing my analysis (without substance of course)..

i find this amusing:

"The only reason you decided to attack me personally by telling me I have comprehension problems is because I don't agree with you. I'm really not interested in taking this any further, after this post, because I don't like to be treated the way you treat me, and I won't put up with it."

i considered your initial post to me to be dismissvely impolite

"so much for"

meaning? ??

(never mind, don't bother, i'm sure you will come up a sanitized implication to your words)

however...recognize that when you post to someone, the probability is they may respond

frankly you don't need to 'put up with' my posts anymore than i need to 'put up with yours'

but i will of course respond when challenged

my suggestion is if you don't want to be challenged back don't initiate a dialogue with me

finally, responding to your answer...

Since you must have your answer to the Dutch killing (which I thought would be obvious from my treatment of Rudolph- the two situations are ver similar, imo):
The killer of the Dutch man had a poltical grievance- and I'd say it was a politically motivated killing. It was a political protest that was also criminal murder. The fact that a political grievance is handlend violently, does not make it not poltical. The fact that the poltical protest is born of rage does not make it not political nor does it negate the fact that is may be an act of protest. It may be uncomfortable, for some people, that political protest encompasses the violent, but I do not think discomfort should drive definitions. If I allowed my own discomfort to drive my definitions, I would prefer to define violent and criminal actions out of the realm of "political protest", but logically I cannot for the life of me see how I would do that.


of course i never said that the murder without motivation

i'm not the least uncomfortable with assigning motivation to a killer, whether it be political, hate, greed, (fill in the blank)

thankfully right thinking people are able to differentiate between committing crimes 'in the name of' and legitimate protest

the fellow who bombed abortion clinics and the olympic venue in atlanta may have convinced himself that he was 'protesting'

but our laws state otherwise...

and he is going to have a good long time to fully contemplate the significance of that distinction, if he had simply painted up a sign and walked peacefully back and forth he would have been afforded the right to his freedom of expression, his protest...

but instead he committed crimes, and thankfully no more 'protest' for him

in a democracy legitimate protest is given certain protection by our laws...we give a place *respect* to legitimate protest

when an equivilant status is conferred upon peaceful and violent 'protesters' by the very definition, the term has been rendered useless

just like 'homicide bomber' one can bomb and commit homicide without killing onself.....like those in madrid...they would be true homicide bombers..they did not commit suicide, when one eliminates the word 'suicide' from the bombing, the true meaning of the act is distorted by redefining 'suicide' into homicide...using suicide and homicide interchangeably simply impedes recognition of the factual cirumstances

going back to my original post to kholt...where she states it is 'unhelpful' to conflate acts of murder, mayhem and violence into 'protest'...

i certainly concur

and reiterate that those who persist in conflating do so out of profound intellectual dishonesty

words have meaning...

ask mr. durbin when he recklessly and stupidly equates gitmo with nazi concentration camps, gulags, and the carnage of pol pot

there are consequences to that type of abusiveness of the language

this lack of intellectual integrity associated with reconfiguring the language to comport with one's political bias and internal worldview may perhaps slip by analytical thinking of weaker minds

it is up to those of us who see it to call it out and expose it