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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: JBTFD who wrote (693240)	7/21/2005 7:49:33 PM
From: ManyMoose	Respond to of 769670

I had that experience when Clinton gave his famous "I did not have sex with that woman" speech. I have fallen into the trap wanting to believe something badly enough to not check the facts.

To: JBTFD who wrote (693240)	7/25/2005 3:32:45 PM
From: Peter Dierks	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

Thanks for the thought provoking post. "I think talk radio and other really biased sources of information take advantage of this aspect of human nature also. Because the goal is to get people on your side, not give them the whole truth." You can lump the formerly mainstream media like NYTimes, LATimes, Wash Post, ABC, CBS, CNN, etc. into this. These are all just as guilty of editorializing as Rush, Sean, Laura, et al. The difference being that the conservative talk show hosts are honest about the fact that they are editorializing instead of reporting the news. The FMSM are dishonest about this. "why do the terrorists hate us?" and the completely simplistic answer given by this administration. "They hate our democracy. They hate our freedoms". This answer is at the same time true and not true. It is true that there are some fundamentalist Moslems who feel democracy is not good and who feel our freedoms may lead to degradation spiritually for many people. The part of this that is not true is the idea that this simplistic statement completely covers the entirety of the grievances the Islamic world has against us. First of all it ignores statements made by the leaders of the terrorists who many times delineate some very specific reasons they are willing to die in opposition to our policies. Second of all, it rather naively ignores the possibility that they might have some legitimate grievances against various US policies that relate to their nation states. We have never had an honest discussion in this country about this topic. And we probably never will. Maybe it is because the people in general don't care, or maybe it is because the leaders of this country don't want to take on the difficult task of justifying our foreign policy in public. As long as our foreign policy consists of taking from people who are powerless to protect what they have, there will be some of them who resort to terrorism as a response. There are different causes for different groups of people. The hate motivation in Westernized youth is different than the motivation for Gaza youth. They are similar in some respects. Multiculterism is a large contributor in both cases. In Israel and the West Bank there are two distinct cultures one Jewish which is successful, and another Palestinian which is designed to enforce economic failure. The peoples keep the populations separate. Israelis have different reasons for keeping themselves apart from Palestinians than do Palestinians. The reasons are less important than the effect. Two cultures cannot exist in the same space without conflict. If London for example, we have a Muslim culture which keeps itself separate from the Western culture that is hosting it. Because they choose to remain apart, the conflict is much easier to inflame. In American history, we have assimilated many cultures into our own, often within a generation or two. Irish Catholics in Boston and Chicago are Americans first, and they celebrate their unique culture second. Surviving German Jews in New York and Miami are similar. Our worst brush (IMO) with cultural separatism came in the middle of the last century with Blacks were being treated substantially differently than Whites. (We could debate the time frame for along time.)The wounds from that cultural separation are still not healed. When the offended people are all dead of old age, the wounds will be recalled for at least another generation. The melting pot is the thing. I have friends whose ancestors were Russian, Danish, French, German, South African, slaves, Mexican, Vietnamese and many other cultures. As they come to know my culture, and I theirs we come together to form a new and more robust culture. " it rather naively ignores the possibility that they might have some legitimate grievances against various US policies that relate to their nation states." I can find legitimate disagreement with everyone. Because I choose to behave like a member of a civilized society the items of dissent are insufficient to motivate me to murder. IMO Naiveté is pretending that people who would rather kill you than address their grievances civilly deserve some special treatment other than as the common murderers they are. In this country we either take their lives or incarcerate them for the rest of their natural lives. We incarcerate those who incite others to murder also.