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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (693577)	7/24/2005 12:17:47 PM
From: ChinuSFO	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769670

And do not forget Karl Rove/Libby who suppressed facts to enable Bush/Cheney's effort to drag this nation into the Iraq war. Subject 55826

To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (693577)	7/24/2005 12:21:32 PM
From: Sully-	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

WOW! You really are factually challenged. "And now it's known - from the Downing Street Memos - that Bush and company intended to wage war period." Oh really? What is "known"? Could you cite the specific relevant passages?

To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (693577)	7/24/2005 12:25:13 PM
From: Sully-	Respond to of 769670

"David Kay confirmed the UNs findings" Is that all he did? DAVID KAY: In my judgment, based on the work that has been done to this point of the Iraq Survey Group, and in fact, that I reported to you in October, Iraq was in clear violation of the terms of [U.N.] Resolution 1441. Resolution 1441 required that Iraq report all of its activities -- one last chance to come clean about what it had. We have discovered hundreds of cases, based on both documents, physical evidence and the testimony of Iraqis, of activities that were prohibited under the initial U.N. Resolution 687 and that should have been reported under 1441, with Iraqi testimony that not only did they not tell the U.N. about this, they were instructed not to do it and they hid material..... ....the unparalleled looting and destruction, a lot of which was directly intentional, designed by the security services to cover the tracks of the Iraq WMD program and their other programs as well.... Message 19757713

To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (693577)	7/24/2005 12:26:23 PM
From: Sully-	Respond to of 769670

"The UN investigation was pre-empted by Bush's war. We were lied to." Could you cite the specific "lies" Bush told? Got links to his exact words?

To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (693577)	7/24/2005 12:28:33 PM
From: Sully-	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

David Kay: ....... "All I can say is if you read the total body of intelligence in the last 12 to 15 years that flowed on Iraq, I quite frankly think it would be hard to come to a conclusion other than Iraq was a gathering, serious threat to the world with regard to WMD." In fact, David Kay just last fall said that the Iraq Survey Group, quote, "discovered sufficient evidence to date to conclude that the Iraqi regime was committed to delivery system improvements that would have, if Operation Iraqi Freedom had not occurred, dramatically breached U.N. restrictions placed on Iraq after the 1991 Gulf War." We have also found that Iraq had plans and advanced design work for a liquid-propellant missile with ranges of up to 1,000 kilometers; activity that Iraq did not report to the U.N. and which could have placed large portions of the Middle East in jeopardy. We have confirmed that Iraq had new work under way on prohibited solid-propellant missiles that were also concealed from the United Nations. Significantly, the Iraq Survey Group has also confirmed prewar intelligence that Iraq was in secret negotiations with North Korea to obtain some of its most dangerous missile technology. Message 19774077

To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (693577)	7/24/2005 12:31:52 PM
From: Sully-	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

DAVID KAY: I think Iraq was a dangerous place becoming more dangerous, because, in fact, what we observe is that the regime itself was coming apart. It was descending into worse the part of moral depravity and corruption. Saddam was isolated in a fantasy land capable of wreaking tremendous harm and terror on his individual citizens, but corruption, money gain was the root cause. At the same time that we know there were terrorist groups in state still seeking WMD capability. Iraq, although I found no weapons, had tremendous capabilities in this area. A marketplace phenomena was about to occur, if it did not occur; sellers meeting buyers. And I think that would have been very dangerous if the war had not intervened..... ....Iraq remained a very dangerous place in terms of WMD capabilities, even though we found no large stockpiles of weapons..... Message 19757678

To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (693577)	7/24/2005 12:33:37 PM
From: Sully-	Respond to of 769670

Last fall the Iraqi Survey Group uncovered, quote, "significant information, including research and development of biological weapons, applicable organisms, the involvement of the Iraqi intelligence service in possible biological weapons activities and deliberate concealment activities." All of this suggests that Iraq, after 1996, further compartmentalized its program and focused on maintaining smaller covert capabilities that could be activated quickly to surge the production of biological weapons agents. The Iraq Survey Group found a network of laboratories and safe houses controlled by Iraqi intelligence and security services that contained equipment for chemical and biological research and a prison laboratory complex possibly used in human testing for biological weapons agents that were not declared to the United Nations..... .......Before I leave the biological weapons story, an important fact that you must consider: For years the U.N. searched unsuccessfully for Saddam's biological weapons program. His son-in-law, Hussein Kamil, who controlled the hidden program, defected and only then was the world able to confirm that Iraq indeed had an active and dangerous biological weapons program. Message 19774132

To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (693577)	7/24/2005 12:34:36 PM
From: Sully-	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

Charles Duelfer, head of the Iraq Survey Group, said, "a threat remains that chemical weapons could be used against U.S. and coalition forces, noting information from earlier this year that Iraqi scientists had linked up with foreign terrorists in Iraq. A series of raids beginning last March, Duelfer said, prevented the problem from 'becoming a major threat." and.... ""Hussein's government retained data and personnel knowledgeable about weapons, and used funds from the Oil for Food relief program to upgrade his chemical industry so that weapons materials could be produced once sanctions ended." Message 20616191

To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (693577)	7/24/2005 12:37:57 PM
From: Sully-	Respond to of 769670

David Kay: ".......Iraq was in clear and material violation of 1441. They maintained programs and activities, and they certainly had the intentions at a point to resume their program. So there was a lot they wanted to hide because it showed what they were doing that was illegal. I hope we find even more evidence of that." "The world is far safer with the disappearance and removal of Saddam Hussein" "I have said I actually think this may be one of those cases where it was even more dangerous than we thought." "I think when we have the complete record you're going to discover that after 1998 it became a regime that was totally corrupt. Individuals were out for their own protection. And in a world where we know others are seeking WMD, the likelihood at some point in the future of a seller and a buyer meeting up would have made that a far more dangerous country than even we anticipated with what may turn out not to be a fully accurate estimate.".... Senator McCain: "So the point is, if he were in power today, there is no doubt that he would harbor ambitions for the development and use of weapons of mass destruction. Is there any doubt in your mind?" David Kay: "There's absolutely no doubt. And I think I've said that, Senator.".... Senator Clinton: "I think that rightly does raise questions that we should be examining about whether or not the U.N. inspection process pursuant to 1441 might not also have worked without the loss of life that we have confronted both among our own young men and women, as well as Iraqis." David Kay: "Well, Senator Clinton, let me just add to that. We have had a number of Iraqis who have come forward and said, 'We did not tell the U.N. about what we were hiding, nor would we have told the U.N. because we would run the risk of our own' -- I think we have learned things that no U.N. inspector would have ever learned given the terror regime of Saddam and the tremendous personal consequences that scientists had to run by speaking the truth." That's not to say, and it's not incompatible with the fact that inspections accomplish a great deal in holding a program down. And that's where the surprise is. In holding the program down, in keeping it from break out, I think the record is better than we would have anticipated. I don't think the record is necessarily better than we thought with regard to getting the final truth, because of the power of the terrorist state that Saddam Hussein had." Message 19757747