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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Lane3 who wrote (2566)8/1/2005 9:11:25 AM
From: epicure  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 542229
 
Mr. Madison is 100% correct. IMO, of course.



To: Lane3 who wrote (2566)8/3/2005 7:58:39 PM
From: TimF  Respond to of 542229
 
At most, 500,000 American troops are at risk of being deployed to these war theaters at some time. Assume that for each of them some 20 members of the wider family sweat with fear when they hear that a helicopter crashed in Afghanistan or that X number of soldiers or Marines were killed or seriously wounded in Iraq. It implies that no more than 10 million Americans have any real emotional connection to these wars.

That's inherent in what in a small war that doesn't require full mobilization. Ramping up the military to WWII levels so that everyone can either join up or be close friends or family with someone who has doesn't exactly strike me as a "solution" <g>.

The administration and Congress have gone to extraordinary lengths to insulate voters from the money cost of the wars -- to the point even of excluding outlays for them from the regular budget process.

That provides zero insulation in terms of actually costing money, and I don't think it provides any in terms of paying attention to the cost. Special authorizations outside the regular budget probably just draw more attention to the financial cost.

The strategic shielding of most voters from any emotional or financial sacrifice

I don't think there has been any "strategic shielding". No special effort to shield. The war is just a small war and it doesn't effect a country with 290 or so million people and a 14 figure GDP as much as some previous wars have effected America. The intervention in Kosovo had even less of an impact. Did it cause a horrible moral hazard? Using Reinhardt's logic we should try to make all our wars bigger to avoid this hazard...

Moral hazard in this context can explain why a nation that once built a Liberty Ship every two weeks and thousands of newly designed airplanes in the span of a few years now takes years merely to properly arm and armor its troops with conventional equipment.

Our equipment is far more complex than what we used in WWII. In any case our soldiers are equipped to a much higher standard than in WWII, not just in the obvious absolute sense, but also relative to our enemies, and relative to the state of the art at the time. To give just one example our Sherman tanks were cheap and easy to build but they had thin armor and week guns compared to panzers and they burned easily. I've heard a story of an individual Tiger tank holding up a whole column of Shermans, destroying a number of them while their shells bounced harmlessly off of its armor, until eventually air support was called in. The M1 on the other hand is outstanding, a world class tank, even if it is a heavy pricey full hog. Its power, protection and speed are hard to beat. And its not just tanks, from small arms, to body armor, to armor on transport vehicles, to aircraft, to body armor, to medical care. In just about every way our soldiers have much better equipment, supplies, and support than their grandfathers did in WWII, both in absolute and relative terms.

But at the same time, we allow families of reservists and National Guard members to slide into deep financial distress as their loved ones stand tall for us on lethal battlefields and the family is deprived of these troops' typically higher civilian salaries.

I do feel for these families, but the reservist did sign up for the deal. If they were not prepared to be called up for potentially lengthy service they should not have signed up. Also many companies or government organizations will make up the difference for their employees.

Last year kind-hearted folks in New Jersey collected $12,000 at a pancake feed to help stock pantries for financially hard-pressed families of the National Guard. Food pantries for American military families? The state of Illinois now allows taxpayers to donate their tax refunds to such families. For the entire year 2004, slightly more than $400,000 was collected in this way, or 3 cents per capita. It is the equivalent of about 100,000 cups of Starbucks coffee. With a similar program Rhode Island collected about 1 cent per capita. Is this what we mean by "supporting our troops"?

1 - Yes it is supporting the troops. Most of them don't need charity, and the poorest (say privates who are the sole source of income for a family) are eligible for public assistance. I don't think this aid should be denigrated. Its a very positive thing.

2 - That $400,000 is far from the only voluntary civilian support for out soldiers and marines. Very far.

3 - Few soldiers need "food pantries". For most of these reservists the problem is not that they don't have enough income to support themselves or to feed a family. Its that their income is much lower than what is needed to maintain their previous lifestyle. As much as I might feel for a family forced in to a lower middle or even "upper lower" class lifestyle from their previous "middle middle" to "lower upper" class lifestyle, I wouldn't say that they are poor, or propose any large scale government program to address the issue. I also do not think the lack of any government or major private program to help the family keep their old lifestyle in any way amounts to an abuse of or even a lack of support or honoring of, our soldiers and marines.

Tim