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Politics : Moderate Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (18650)	8/8/2005 6:03:29 PM
From: 49thMIMOMander	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

"other than Allah e.g. Satan" Luckily we always managed to follow our ancient traditional multi-party system, except for some unlucky years in the the 1700s, when it was a matter of the hats and the caps, fighting it out (in Sweden, imported from UK) Some say, 500 years and not much did really stick, what little did, got cleaned out in just 75 years of shamanistic independence. Duo-monopoly?? Two-party view on that old issue: du·al·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-lzm, dy-) n. The condition of being double; duality. Philosophy. The view that the world consists of or is explicable as two fundamental entities, such as mind and matter. Psychology. The view that the mind and body function separately, without interchange. Theology. The concept that the world is ruled by the antagonistic forces of good and evil. <--- The concept that humans have two basic natures, the physical and the spiritual. --- Bless the now deceased one, who introduced me to anglo-american duality.. the adversarial variation.. Plus that one: "in the middle of the road, there are just dead armadillos and yellow signs".. (personally and statiscically, I observed the majority of road kills on the right and left extremes of the US roads)

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (18650)	8/8/2005 6:07:38 PM
From: 49thMIMOMander	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

Btw, much of the funniest laws and habits in modern Islam were acquired during their forceful british colonial years. There is plenty of good and evil in any colonial man.. much more than enough for everyone else.. (not Kipling, no?? but replying to Carl Bernstein, Dr. David Greenburg, C-SPAN3, some weeks ago) However, I am still trying to find out the reason for the US revolution, was it to avoid all of that, was it to get rid of them or to make them more severe and strictl, increasing the diameter of the rightful stick (more than an english thumb), the free right of lashing the whip,etc?? (skipping that french and viking freedom influence, never implemented) Luckily EU has promised to handle UK one way, or in a another dualistic way, even the banking rules of London City(when they join the yuro) All but Norway, who said no-no-no-nej-nej-nej, to UK, at the very start (those religious fishin rights, disasters of the commons).

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (18650)	8/8/2005 6:26:45 PM
From: 49thMIMOMander	Respond to of 20773

Btw, the british disaster of their commons are really funny, from the times the widows lost their rights to have two goats and 20 chicken feeding on the commons, local village property, then royal and future aristocratic land, Althorp and Lady Di) US, obviously did have lots of pre-emptive common lands (as well as alien labour, when that market became viable) Ouch, we had to do some 500 years of wars to preserve our property and chicken rights.. However, we just made it, numero uno in the PISA educational rights. I trully true believe even London City will adopt the yuro rules, despite those widows and goats. Especially if they manage to tweak their constitutional (non-existent) and financing rules to suit them slightly better. If not, this post-colonial millenium will be lost.. en.wikipedia.org Thorp is a Middle English word for a hamlet or small village. There are many place names in England with the suffix "-thorp" or "-thorpe". In old Norse, "the family values" as well as " small farmer who does not own his land, but has built his own house on the land of the one who owns the land"

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (18650)	8/8/2005 10:08:26 PM
From: tsigprofit	Respond to of 20773

So, according to this letter - they would not have a truce even if the US got out of the ME - unless Israel was no more. Ain't gonna happen - so where does that leave us? Man I wish they would have founded the State of Israel in Canada somewhere, and the ME didn't have any oil - would have been a lot simpler for us in the late 20th century - and early 21st... just a thought... >> Full text: bin Laden's 'letter to America'

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (18650)	8/8/2005 10:35:12 PM
From: tsigprofit	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

Hey Moderate Forum reaches 100 members now - thanks to all here!

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (18650)	8/8/2005 10:44:18 PM
From: tsigprofit	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 20773

After reading this letter - I am more pessimistic. There seems little opportunity for a truce. We are dependent on ME oil for the forseeable future, so cannot totally disengage from the ME now. We are also not going to allow Israel to be destroyed, and apparently they have no interest in an Israel that exists but has withdrawn from all Occupied Territories. He is threatening us here, even US civilians openly, as he holds us accountable for our leaders and US military. It is truly a clash of culture, and will not end nicely I think. He needs to understand what happened in the US when we perceived a major long-term threat on the continent from the Native Americans - we all know what happened here. (I am part Native American FWIW) The US will not allow itself to be destroyed - and this man is opposed to all US values. So where does this leave us? To me - there are several possibilities: 1. Truce - US withdraws from Middle East. Stops support for Israel - let's them fend for themselves - and use all means at it's disposal to do so. Unlikely. We are very dependent on the oil - and won't allow Israel to be destroyed for political, religious, and alliance reasons. 2. Muddle through - this is what we're doing now - attacking Iraq, Afghanistan - and threatening Iran if the go nuclear. Not working very well so far, is it? 3. Attack and take out - with the option to escalate and irradicate if we are attacked with WMDs: I wonder if this is where we are heading? I hear there are preparations made for a variety of scenarios - and our response. We don't have the manpower now with current troops to escalate say into Iran. My guess is we will stay with Muddle through for now - while making threats to both Al Qaeda and Iran - if they attack us and escalate - watch out. We can always call for a draft then say if attacked with WMDs - and then would be forced to tyr the irradication option - irradicate Al Qaeda - and the seats of power that support them. Just my thoughts on this August night. Good luck to all here. t >> Full text: bin Laden's 'letter to America' Online document: the full text of Osama bin Laden's "letter to the American people", reported in today's Observer. The letter first appeared on the internet in Arabic and has since been translated and circulated by Islamists in Britain. Observer Worldview Sunday November 24, 2002 In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful, "Permission to fight (against disbelievers) is given to those (believers) who are fought against, because they have been wronged and surely, Allah is Able to give them (believers) victory" [Quran 22:39] observer.guardian.co.uk "Those who believe, fight in the Cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (anything worshipped other than Allah e.g. Satan). So fight you against the friends of Satan; ever feeble is indeed the plot of Satan."[Quran 4:76] Some American writers have published articles under the title 'On what basis are we fighting?' These articles have generated a number of responses, some of which adhered to the truth and were based on Islamic Law, and others which have not. Here we wanted to outline the truth - as an explanation and warning - hoping for Allah's reward, seeking success and support from Him. While seeking Allah's help, we form our reply based on two questions directed at the Americans: (Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you? (Q2)What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you? As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple: (1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us. a) You attacked us in Palestine: (i) Palestine, which has sunk under military occupation for more than 80 years. The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to the Jews, who have occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression, tyranny, crimes, killing, expulsion, destruction and devastation. The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals. And of course there is no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for Israel. The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards this crime must pay its*price, and pay for it heavily.