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Politics : Rat's Nest - Chronicles of Collapse -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: SiouxPal who wrote (1605)	8/10/2005 4:06:32 PM
From: Wharf Rat	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 24216

I think the most important thing right now is to put the information out there. Wake up folks, here is where we are. Get ready for what's happening. It's a lot easier to put on Survivor. Look how hard it is to wake people up about politics, and that's in the paper every day. One of these days, energy will be the headlines; by then , problems will have started. Oy. Paul Revere@oaklandraiders.org/They took the whole Cherokee nation Put us on this reservation Took away our ways of life The tomahawk and the bow and knife Took away our native tongue And taught their English to our young And all the beads we made by hand Are nowadays made in Japan Cherokee people, Cherokee tribe So proud to live, so proud to die They took the whole Indian nation Locked us on this reservation Though I wear a shirt and tie I’m still part redman deep inside Cherokee people, Cherokee tribe So proud to live, so proud to die But maybe someday when they learn Cherokee nation will return, will return, will return, will return, will return Indian Reservation

To: SiouxPal who wrote (1605)	8/11/2005 12:00:25 PM
From: Wharf Rat	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 24216

Solar Power is Hot -- Too Hot August 09, 2005 — By Betsey Bruner, The Arizona Daily Sun You can look but you can't buy. That was the word Friday from the solar energy corner of the Southwest Sustainability Expo at NAU. A worldwide shortage of solar panels has put most local projects on hold. "I get them in and they are sold before I get them in the warehouse," said Ursula Garrett, owner of ETA Engineering in Tempe. "We're back-ordered. The demand increased and the silicon suppliers aren't keeping up." Garrett said the 200 Sharp 165-watt solar panels in her warehouse are all sold, and more won't be in until the end of the month. The New York Times reported on the phenomenon Friday, even quoting a buyer in Illinois as finally finding some panels at Northern Arizona Wind & Sun in Flagstaff. But at the company's booth in the NAU Fieldhouse, electrician David Lauzon said supplies were tight and the price was going up. "They're shipping them to Germany," Lauzon said. "Germany's just going real big on solar. I hear they make four times what they make if they sell them over there." A 120-watt Kyocera photovoltaic module (solar panel) from Japan that was about $400 several years ago now sells on sale for about $550, if you can find one, he added. Other reasons for the backlog of orders include the recent passage in California and other states of generous tax credits for solar energy installation by homeowners. Wind turbines, however, are not as scarce. "Compared to solar, wind per watt is cheaper than solar, but, of course, you have to have wind and you have to get it above the pines," said John Ervin, another Wind & Sun salesman. Ervin said areas outside of Flagstaff, such as Williams, Winslow, Doney Park and toward the reservation, have pretty good wind resources. At a nearby booth, Mason Rumney III waxes poetic about his personal passion: earth-friendly masonry domes. He has lived in one for about 17 years in Sedona, near the Palatki ruins. His home is solar and wind powered. It also has passive energy systems that use available natural conditions such as sunlight and wind to warm or cool the living environment. "This is the ultimate passive design," he said. "You don't need air conditioning, even here in Arizona. If they would build this way, they wouldn't need the air conditioning that's 50 percent of the energy consumption in his country." A shot-crete dome like his is made by spraying a concrete foam material over a giant inflated balloon. It is quick to build and relatively inexpensive and can be made in three days for about $30 per foot. "It's like a pool, only upside down," he explained. "The fourth little piggy would have lived in a masonry dome. A dome uses a third less materials. These particular domes can save from 60 to 80 percent on your cooling and heating bills." The New Frontiers' booth is offering free samples of organic food to illustrate the sustainable production of food. The chocolate soy milk, energy bars and string cheese samples there will help sustain attendees as they make the rounds of booths. The expo is also a family-friendly environment, with an expanded youth activity center in one corner of the field house. Young people will be able to paint a canvas bag that they can keep and circulate an educational passport book. "There is a renewable energy scavenger hunt for the kids," said Peter Johnston of APS. "Kids will visit these companies, answer questions and get their passports stamped. If they answer correctly, there are prizes." Johnston and Janet Crow, both of the APS Technology Department, said children are most interested in biogas, the gas generated from the anaerobic digestion of agricultural and animal waste. "Did you know a Phoenix elephant's waste is worth 400 watts of electricity?" Crow asked. "A cow is 150 watts, chickens are 2 watts and a pig is 56 watts." Source: Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News enn.com

To: SiouxPal who wrote (1605)	8/11/2005 12:35:29 PM
From: Wharf Rat	Respond to of 24216

In a message dated 8/11/2005 12:03:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, carl1679@... writes: I am just wondering how long it will take for the average American to start to put 2 and 3 together. ============================================================== It's hard to put 2 and 3 together when you suffer from brain freeze. I've been investigating Peak Oil for about half a year or so now, and just finished writing a three part series on it - specifically how it will effects a specific set of emerging religious and philosophical movements, a group that in broad generalities tends to be well educated, liberal, and environmentally concerned. Now, here was a ready made group, and there was no response - and there was certainly enough in the articles to annoy everyone. Why the lack reaction? Simple - shock, fear, denial. The usual stuff. I asked around, and there is certain shell shocked response of 'But..but.." Yeh, you get the picture. I've grown-up hearing about the end of the world from one group or another, and often people I respected and knew well. None of it ever happened. Many see this as Y2K revisited. Yet with Peak Oil it is all very clear - and there is no real escape. When informed about it many ask the same questions, as if it were an episode of Star Trek and we could just 'tech' our way out of it - but it is clear - there are no technological solutions (at least not yet). Peak Oil is a nightmare and when was the last time you were in a nightmare and not frozen with fear? Only this time, there is no waking up. They hope that they will not experience and without saying so, abdicate it to being their children and grandchildren's responsibility. Now, almost everyone I deal with is college educated and professional, and they understand science about as well as my five year old - and that is not an exaggeration. My wife is an award winning PhD Biologist who teaches environmental science and whose students come from the best end of social-economic spectrum. Here again, my wife is amazed at the lack of understanding on environmental-energy issues not only her students have (before she is done with them <G>), but also many of the other people she talks to about this as well. To ask when the average person will figure it out assumes they even know their is an equation in front of them. So, let me give you an example relevant to the discussion. My Masonic Lodge is broke. We can barely pay our bills, and often don't do it on time. The average age of a Mason in Pennsylvania is 65, meaning that within 10 years, half of the current membership will be dead, impaired, or unable to support the lodge in the manner such activities require. Many will be 50 year members and not paying dues - a critical point - as cash is energy, as is oil. Despite the fact that the organization has been loosing members steadily for 40 years, and the average age suggests impending financial catastrophe - as if not being able to pay the bills isn't bad enough - the members are in deep denial about the situation and the only viable solution. Here we can sell our building, invest the money, and from interest on a paltry Federal bond pay rent off at a neighboring lodge - thereby benefiting both parties - and never worry about income (ie - energy) issues again. However, the reaction to this plan is purely emotional, not rational, and I bring this up because these are good, solid men, who help each other and their community, but they are as the above question asked 'average'. If a group of people cannot even change how they relate to a simple equation of income and expense, then asking when they will figure out that they need to change almost every aspect of their life and be environmentally responsible for themselves borders on ridiculous. It is unfortunate, but many people will only understand when the lights go out. Sincerely, Mark Stavish PA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] groups.yahoo.com