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To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (133359)	8/19/2005 12:14:58 PM
From: JohnM	Respond to of 793914

For tenured professors, you must prove malfeasance and deal with the union. Actually, it's a great deal more complicated than that. Harder to fire than corporations, I'll grant you that. But some corporations, when the lid come off, have a genuinely reprehensible history of buried cases of sexual harassment. My guess is, and we'll never know the results, the academy has dealt with this issue much better. As for getting rid of tenured faculty members, back to that. A lot of universities don't have unions. So that's off the table from your comments. And malfeasance is certainly one of the grounds for dismissal but not the only, depending on what you understand that term to mean. I suspect, compared say to large law firms, that universities are better dealing with their problem children among tenured faculty than large law firms are with their partners. But again, just a shot.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (133359)	8/19/2005 12:18:03 PM
From: John Carragher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793914

break the law fine,,, if you have proof termination. but if you have performance problems. it may take a year of coaching, documentation, setting agreed upon goals and objectives. then person shows some improvement , marginal but enough not get demoted or terminate, and you start all over again. except you may be able to jump right back to new goals and objectives vs letter to person. formal appraisals of course all during this time. and not without having the next management approve and employee relations. now if minority , it may gone on for much longer... you see the corporation doesn't want to take corrective action that may lead to a law suit. they would prefer manager or supervisor to deal with problem by ignoring it, or somehow make it go away. usually this is done often by giving the person a glowing a report so some other manager will take him into his or her organization. I have also seen managers call head hunters and tell them they have this great performer but there is nothing they can do for him/her at this time. person gets call from head hunter leaves corp in a month or so with his peers thinking he did great getting another job vs them being stuck there. little do they know. sure enjoy retirement. g