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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (133681)	8/22/2005 3:22:02 AM
From: Bill Ulrich	Respond to of 793623

Well ..... don't believe everything you read in the papers, I guess? This is, apparently, the location of our impasse. Couple years ago, I dug through some old historical newspaper archives from the late 40s as well as biographies of relevant personalities at the time who were in charge of those post-war transitions. 60 years later, most people gloss over/forget how difficult those transitions were. "Last Days of Patton" is a good, albeit small start. The MSM of the time made sure to reflect our bumbling, bullying, arrogant foolishness. I wouldn't have expected it to be any different this time, and sure enough, "we've failed" despite having been in Iraq for only a fraction of the time relative to other successful transitions. Same shit, different day. Don't believe everything you read in the papers. "The short history of our adventure in Iraq indicates that with respect to the war on terror and creating a safer, saner, world, Iraq is an unnecessary part of the job that is getting our hands very dirty and making us look like bumbling, bullying, arrogant fools."

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (133681)	8/22/2005 10:01:03 AM
From: michael97123	Respond to of 793623

I agree with you and Hagel now. Did I hit your prediction for time and date. We can still argue about aims and goals of the war but not on the gross mismanagement of this effort. Bush and his shrinking 52% majority can chop wood at the ranch all day and stay the course, but it changes nothing. I blame myself for my tendency toward Wilsonianism which struck me in the 60s and again in this war; a belief that our system is better than everyone elses. It may be so but it cant be imposed except with the total defeat of the enemy as in WW2 and we have neither the stomach or inclination for that. Same folks who told us that Vietnam was lost because of treasonous students and MSM (china too), will be saying the same thing about iraq. We can still hope and expect for a better outcome in iraq than total defeat as in vietnam in the end. Mismanagement of this effort continues and the mismanagers continue to run the show. I hope rumsfeld lives a long life ad await his memoirs and tears a la MacNamara at a later date. It is 1972--we need LBJ replaced or at least his failed team. Can Bush even contemplate this? For him loyalty is everything but who is loyal to the almost 2000 dead american and the thousands of disabled? Who is loyal to truth and not fantasy? It would have been real nice if we had pulled off the victory in iraq post war. It may even have been possible back then with more troops and more allies (if possible). The best we can hope for now is some sort of draw where kurds and shiaa are protected and sharia law only exists on the margins. I am ranting so i will stop. You were right all along Ed.