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To: Maurice Winn who wrote (67972)8/23/2005 2:01:46 AM
From: shades  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 74559
 
The British Empire ensured China allowed trade too. The American Empire seems to be like the British Empire, but on steroids, and without the sense of humour

Interesting - look what General Chens grandpa had to say about the british and china a few decades back:

achamchen.com

He founded the Peking Gazette two years later. A natural born fighter he knew but one tactic, a vigorous and bold attack. He selected as his chief target, the strongest foe possible: the North China Daily News, chief spokesman of British Imperialist interest in the Far East, the defender of capital and prestige and power the British had built up in the region. At that time Chinese commerce was centered in Shanghai, so called international settlement, but this commerce was chiefly for Britain's advantage and to some extent that of Japan, then an ally of Britain. Financial power was centered in British Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank. As a result of his onslaughts, Chen was arrested in 1915 and thrown into a narrow cell with five lice-covered assassins. However, because he was still a British subject and because extra-territoriality still existed in China, he asserted that he was illegally held and released because of this, in 1917.

Undaunted he now entered the enemy's stronghold, Shanghai, where he joined Dr. Sun Yat Sen, founder of Nationalist China and became Sun Yat Sen's personal advisor and private secretary, a position he held until the latter's death in 1925. He also founded the Shanghai Gazette, in which he renewed his attacks on British interests and was again thrown into prison but was later freed.

In 1919 Chen was a delegate to the Versailles Conference where he formulated China's demands in clear, unmistakable terms. He demanded among other things the abolition of concession territories insisting that all such be placed under a mixed Chinese and foreign administration, the Chinese predominant. This demand later paved the way for Chinese victory over the extra-territorial power formerly held by the white governments.

What happened to that fine british sense of humor? Gads!



To: Maurice Winn who wrote (67972)8/23/2005 2:45:59 AM
From: shades  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 74559
 
This is one of shades very favortie shows - now quick QURICE - without using the brain GOOG - can you tell shades which one of the shows stars went down for a rape conviction a little ways back? Funny, famous, rich, and still had to rape a bitch to get his stinky hole - so so crazy! Shades figure if big time british tv comedian have to rape, what chance shades got? Last year shades at dragoncon convention hanging with Peter Davidson doctor who, he couldn't get laid either - shades think what so fucked up with this world that Doctor Who can't get puss at a sci fi convention with geek bitchez? Shades probably spend way too much time on this "conundrum" hehe. Randian Memes just so entrenched in so many - hehe.

Few years before that shades hanging with Estrada at money conference in Atlantis Bahamas - same problem - he couldn't get laid either - mr. Chips was stressing - then some big arabian prince came in with his 100 person entourage and we all had to leave that side of the casino - silly silly prince - he did not know he was in the presnece of famous californian highway patrol - haha!

Shades have many good times with friends watching this funny funny show.

news.bbc.co.uk

TV's Red Dwarf beams onto mobiles

Red Dwarf ran for eight series
Full episodes of cult TV sci-fi show Red Dwarf are being made available for fans to buy and watch on their mobile phone handsets.
The Doctor Who special The Five Doctors, originally screened in 1983, is also part of the licensing deal.

The shows will be available on video chips designed for mobile phones.

This is the first time BBC Worldwide has licensed programmes for use on mobile phones, in a deal with technology firm Rok Player.

Rok Player also holds the licences for animated characters Wallace and Gromit and SpongeBob Squarepants.

Initially three Red Dwarf episodes will be available, including fans' favourite Cassandra from series eight.

The BBC has also begun to experiment with previewing clips of shows on mobile phones, with dark comedy Nighty Night the first in the trial.



To: Maurice Winn who wrote (67972)8/23/2005 3:30:29 AM
From: shades  Respond to of 74559
 
This was posted by what I suspect are some ayn rand types over at the pkarchive board - i always give them hell for loving books over kids like thier hero. Now slagle says he knows personal accounts of people being exploited over in the sweatshops - his wifes relatives maybe - but this person has a different take. Is it ok if just a couple kids get acid poured on them to help the greater good? Where does spock draw the line on the needs of the many outweighing a few?

nytimes.com

August 21, 2005

Travels With My Florida Parrot T-Shirt
By ROGER LOWENSTEIN

THE really good writers do not write 'about' their subjects so much as use them to tell a story. The topic of free trade would not seem to offer much in the way of storytelling material, but Pietra Rivoli has proved otherwise. In 'The Travels of a T-Shirt in the Global Economy' (John Wiley & Sons, $29.95), Ms. Rivoli, an economist at Georgetown University, has mined a subject known for dry polemics and created an engaging and illuminating saga of the international textile trade.

Her book's subtitle is 'An Economist Examines the Markets, Power and Politics of World Trade,' and the author acknowledges that, at the outset, she shared her profession's bias in favor of free trade and, in particular, its 'somewhat off-putting tendency to believe that if everyone understood what we understood' then 'they wouldn't argue so much.' But then, as she says in one of her many beguilingly titled subchapters, 'Student Protests Sent a Business Professor Around the World.'

The protests occurred on 'a cold day in February 1999.' Ms. Rivoli was watching as students gathered at the gothic centerpiece of Georgetown to demonstrate against the International Monetary Fund, the World Trade Organization, and other putative villains of international trade. The crowd, Ms. Rivoli noticed with characteristic acuity, had 'a moral certainty, a unity of purpose' that permitted it to distinguish black from white and good from evil 'with perfect clarity.' One woman seized the microphone and asked: 'Who made your T-shirt? Was it a child in Vietnam? Or a young girl from India earning 18 cents per hour? ... Did you know that she lives 12 to a room? That she shares her bed and has only gruel to eat?'

Ms. Rivoli did not know these things, and she wondered how the woman at the microphone knew. But she decided to find out. In the rest of her narrative, the author tells the story of 'her' T-shirt, which she purchased for $5.99 by the exit of a Walgreen's in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. 'It was white and printed with a flamboyantly colored parrot, with the word 'Florida' scripted beneath.' A company in Miami had engraved the front, after buying the shirt from a factory in China. The Chinese manufacturer had purchased the cotton used to make the shirt from Texas. Eventually it will end up as part of a large but little-known market for used clothing destined for resale in East African ports.

Ms. Rivoli follows her T-shirt along its route, but this is like saying that Melville followed his whale. In Texas, she plumbs the reasons for America's pre-eminence in the cotton trade. This leads to a fascinating inquiry into the pre-Civil War South and its use of African slaves, whose cheap labor was an early example of 'the ability to suppress and avoid competition' that she finds at every stage - not least in today's Asian sweatshops - of her T-shirt's journey. Even today, Texas owes much of its success to factors outside the 'free market,' like universities and other institutions that have helped to integrate ginning, packaging and shipping, and programs to familiarize farmers with technology.

Most of all, American farmers benefit from government subsidies, whose effect is to disenfranchise lower-cost cotton from poor nations of West Africa. When Ms. Rivoli informs us that these subsidies amount to more than the United States' entire development aid budget for the continent of Africa, we are ready to cut the Chinese a little slack, recognizing that they are hardly alone in departing from the virtuous fantasy of free and unrestricted competition. Given the absurdly arcane (and infuriating) knot of import restrictions that will confront her shirt when it attempts to reenter the United States, it isn't clear, she observes dryly, 'whether the best negotiators, or the best T-shirts, would win.'

By looking across history to the shifting center of textile manufacturing from Manchester, England, to Lowell, Mass., to South Carolina to Japan and, finally, the developing nations of Asia, Ms. Rivoli discovers a universal truth. Without making light of the horrors experienced by workers, she asserts that their jobs were a little better than other available options (usually farm work) and, what's more, that textile factories led to advances in industrialization and, just as dependably, in living standards. It is not too much to say that she uses the T-shirt to tell the story of progress.

Similar points have been made before, but in the abstract dialect of economists. Ms. Rivoli does her best work at ground level, introducing us to a family farmer outside Lubbock, Tex.; a young woman on the assembly line in Shanghai; a reseller of shirts in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania; a K Street lobbyist in Washington; not to mention figures from history. We learn of an earlier generation's exploitation from an Alabama sharecropper; of the mangled limbs suffered by factory workers in 19th-century Manchester from Friedrich Engels; and of the hazards of sweatshops from a survivor of the infamous fire at the Triangle Shirtwaist Company in lower Manhattan in 1911 that killed 146 employees.

THE book sparkles with short, happy sentences like 'Unlike French wine or Florida oranges, Texas cotton doesn't brag about where it was born and raised.' Stationed outside a shopping center in Bethesda, Md., where a Salvation Army truck is accepting donations of used clothing, the author tartly observes, 'It is a Saturday morning, and soccer moms are in a race to throw things away.'

Ultimately, she concludes that the argument for free trade is as strong as ever, and it is a moral case as well as an economic one. She advises the activists not to disperse, but to refocus their efforts on including people, like repressed factory workers in China, in the political process 'rather than shielding them from markets.' Her nuanced and fair-minded approach is all the more powerful for eschewing the pretense of ideological absolutism, and her telescopic look through a single industry has all the makings of an economics classic.



To: Maurice Winn who wrote (67972)8/23/2005 12:01:10 PM
From: Slagle  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 74559
 
Maurice Re: "nation" You are so old fashioned in your thinking, so "mid 20th century". <g> Nationalism has arisen in the world again and with a vengeance and this is a very good and positive thing.

The Euro-socialist world view which you proclaim stems from belief that socialism must be international (and adopted everywhere or else it will fail everywhere) and also as an attempt to put an end to the European tendency for war (the World Wars). Europe and a few former British colonies have been vastly changed in most every way by the application of these Euro-socialist programs but much of the rest of the world has been largely untouched.

China is now banging the war-drum and proclaiming a new Chinese nationalism. China proclaims the right on nationalist grounds to control Taiwan based on nothing more than the fact that Taiwan is Chinese. This is a WONDERFUL development. As a powerful nationalism arises in China WE HERE will be encouraged to respond with a renewed AMERICAN nationalism.

Go to China Maurice, go out into the interior somewhere and look around. There is nobody there but the Chinese. Now go back there 1000 years from now and it will be the same, nobody there but the native people. And its the same in India, most of Latin America, the Muslim world, even little places like Korea, Indonesia, Vietnam and many, many others. And in all these places a new and very powerful nationalism is arising. It is the wave of the future. The Rockefeller brothers "one-world New World Order" is the past. And the only places where this project has made any impact is Europe and the ex-Brit colonies. I think those places need to wake up and respond to the new world that is emerging before it is too late.

When I mentioned the USA and free trade I was making reference to HISTORY, not the present day. Back when the Brits, Dutch, Germans, Belgians, French, Spanish and even little Portugal had empires all these empires were first and foremost closed trading networks. That was their purpose. And our primary foriegn policy disputes in those days involved our attempts to break into those closed networks, as we possessed no empire in those bygone days. We have a 200 year long history of advocating "free trade" but this is mainly because we had no imperial trade network of our own and made not real attempt to acquire one. "Free trade" is not a valid Constitutional objective for our government to pursue.

The Brits had the first China "Treaty Ports" and in the beginning these adventures were a project of the Crown and the East India Company. By the end ALL the powers except the USA had Treaty Ports, even Germany had two. We protested the "Treaty Port" system from beginning to end as the ports DID NOT allow "free trade" but were an attempt by the concession holder to charge high fees to any outsider (like the USA clipper ships) that desired to trade there. The only European power to conduct the China trade in a decent manner was Spain through her Philippine colony.

Maurice, how come it is that "liberals" like to call people names online ("commie", "fascist" "stupid" and the like)? It is always "liberals" who do this. Why? I have never had one do it in person. I have been posting and e-mailing since 1995 and I don't think I have EVER called anybody a name.
Slagle



To: Maurice Winn who wrote (67972)8/23/2005 12:42:26 PM
From: paul61  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 74559
 
BUT -trade barriers gives YOUR Nation JOBS - which the people will eventually realize are necessary to pay for the homes and income taxes!!!! thank you for your time...paul