To: Ilaine who wrote (134463 ) 8/27/2005 9:50:04 AM From: Rambi Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793744 As you know, I admire the way you think so always read your posts with a willingness to reexamine my own views. And yes- it's usually the fuzzy areas that might lead to discussion between us. I am a very fuzzy person and you are willing to go there with me. Dubious and probably incomprehensible analogy- but what the heck: I accompany three choirs- from mixed varsity (older, more experienced and trained) to a beginner group. The other day we did an exercise that has the singers trying to get from one tone to another a half step up but by dividing the move into eight tiny increments. In other words they have to sing only 1/16th of a step up each time until they arrive at the higher half tone. Western ears don't HEAR like that; we are raised with half tones, where as Arabic music, for example, uses much smaller gradations between tones (they can have as many as 24 tones in an octave as opposed to our 12), which is why it often sounds so alien and "off" to us. Anyway, the senior choir was able to do it after a couple of tries, the second choir did it, but only by leaping to the right tone at the end, when they realized they weren't there, and the young choir couldn't do it at all, but stayed on the initial pitch. There are two kinds of black white thinking, imo. The kind that has never been validated by a full examination of facts or consideration of opposing thought, and the kind that works through the fuzzy grays- all those quarter tones- to arrive at a destination. It's a discipline that requires focus and a willingness to realize there are many tones we can't immediately hear without really listening.