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To: Slagle who wrote (68328)	9/2/2005 1:07:03 PM
From: shades	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

<They MUST defend this view of science for as their whole wobbly ideology is supposedly based on "science" then they must defend the infallibility of "science" or they risk undermining the "logic" of socialism.> Here your mysticism and mine part ways my friend. Science is about being able to predict with almost absolute certainty until something disproves it - have you ever studied logic and understand why we say all crows are black - there may be a white crow on mars - but until i OBSERVE that - it is USELESS and makes better sense to say all crows are black - did you watch that link I send to MOO about MINDS OF OUR OWN? If an apple drop from a tree I can use SCIENCE to predict where it will fall - how long - how fast - etc etc - SCIENCE is the ONLY thing we have to give us a candle in the dark - candleinthedark.com - James Randi test your mystical brothers to offer any PROOF of thier claims - he offer much REWARD MONEY if they can - no one can do so - it all FANTASY slagle - LAS VEGAS could not exist if any of that stuff true. I don't know all the answers to the universe - but SCIENCE the best thing we got to try and figure things out - to discredit with FANTASY it seems very dumb to me. <One place this plays out is in the schools over the subject of "evolution". Evolution is a "theory" but they are forced to enforce it as an infallible "law" rather than a "theory".> Oh my god, I will be the first to admit there is lots of darkness out there in the universe, but evolution - god slagle - I thought you beyond this already - it passes all the tests for SCIENCE - provable, repeatable, empirical. science.slashdot.org Butterfly Unlocks Evolution Secret < A failure here puts their whole belief system at risk.> The CLAIMS made by SCIENCE pass TESTS - they can be REPEATED, STUDIEd, EMPIRICALLY VERIFIED - it is the best thing we got to go on - oh my god - what would you suggest we replace it with - ok little kid - i will drop this apple 100 times and 100 times you can use SCIENCE to predict the future - but forget about that bullshit SCIENCE - its just a THEORY - oh my god Slagle - as phil says - R U NUTS? science.slashdot.org Scientists Find Flaw in Quantum Dot Construction SCIENTISTS found the FLAW using SCIENCE - not indians smoking peace pipes talking to spirits - OH MY GOD! <And one of our "liberals" can't accept the idea of mystery anywhere any more than Lenin could. But if you can accept that the universe is full of mystery then we agree on quite a lot.> The universe is full of mystery - science our BEST TOOL for uncovering it - everything else wether true or not is not USEFUL. amazon.com Science has reached dazzling heights of discovery, transforming civilization in the process. And yet, some of the most fundamental questions remain unsolved! In The World’s 20 Greatest Unsolved Problems, John Vacca—together with more than 60 of the world’s most highly respected scientists—explains these problems in detail and describes the intellectual and technological hurdles to be overcome in order to solve them. Slagle replacing a good hammer to build a house with a rock because you think there is a better tool than a hammer and we dont need to get locked in thinking only in hammers makes no sense to me - use the hammer until something better comes along. For me, all crows are black until you show me the white one on mars. The apple will fall to the ground everytime no matter how much you tell me the spirits tell you that WRONG. I dont know where you getting the memes you got - where did you go to college and study science? All the science guys I study under say it the best we got and they admit it not the end all be all of the universe and lacking in many ways - but you dont replace the spare tire with a wooden wagon wheel eh?

To: Slagle who wrote (68328)	9/2/2005 1:22:23 PM
From: Elroy Jetson	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

Maurice will recognize that problem. New Zealand has their share of barking Creationists as well. One woman told me how their church prayed each week for the electricity to come back on when the Aukland CBD experienced a nine month black-out. They called in the Australians to repair the lines and supply temporary generators until the job was done. Although many in New Zealand know about Creationism, no one seems to know about maintaining electrical distribution systems. .

To: Slagle who wrote (68328)	9/2/2005 3:10:53 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

Slag, I don't think we have agreement yet. In my experience, there isn't any mystery. Anything I've ever come across is able to be understood with sufficient application of perception and conception. There are no mysteries. There is only ignorance. Vast clouds of igorance like the vast clouds of gas filling the cosmos. But there are also swarms of little illuminating stars of knowledge where ignorance has been reduced. Gradually, we are reducing clouds of ignorance and creating nodes of illumination. Religious cranks seem to think that because there is ignorance about details, such as how the heck the whole thing works, any story which some fakir makes up has to be believed after a personal communication with God who tells him that he is the special one who everyone else has to believe, follow, obey, give money to, and the girls should flock around. That seems to be the core belief of religions. Some bloke [not a sheila] sets himself up as a prophet and a profit centre and demands, with menaces, payment from acolytes and obeisance to whatever wacky ideas he expounds. He has to use ignorance and "mystery" to cow the serfs who know they don't know what the heck is going on, and who have been created over eons to fit into kleptocratic, territorial, alpha male tribal dominance societies, like common chimps, to whom we are very closely related. I think we could, in about 10 breeding steps, create a very chimp-like "person" by careful selection for the breeding programme. Just as labradors, poodles, sausage dogs and great danes are all just products of breeding programmes from wolves, humans could be morphed back into chimps. We wouldn't even have to select out the tail. I've seen plenty of people hairy enough, dark enough, low-browed enough, knuckle-dragging, with the retractable lips, short legs, lack of intellect etc etc etc. I could help in making a gibbon if we want to extend the breeding programme to other species. Face the facts Slag, we are chimps on steroids, in a fog of ignorance, which is different from religious "mystery" with some big bloke making storms, destruction and death to build character in New Orleans people. If there is a big bloke creating all the mayhem, he's busy, as there is character being built in billions of people as we speak. There's nothing which can't be understood. We just need to upgrade our brains and get It into action. "Understanding" is just a matter of building a model in our heads which matches reality. That's the purpose of a brain. Build a model of reality and use that model to keep ourselves and family alive in the face of an infinite array of challenges. Each is a reflection of the other. That is, the brain is a copy of reality and the brain changes reality to suit itself which then feeds back into the brain which effects more changes which change 3D again which reflects back into the brain again in an infinitely iterative process of successive approximation. The brains and 3D are irretrievably linked and each creates the other. Our DNA is the record of all previous attempts at matching reality, as far as has been achieved so far anyway with a LOT of detail from previous 3Ds not being included. Now that we are moving beyond wet chemistry and neurons for building models of 3D, we are really making progress. But we are still at about level 7 on a scale running from zero to googol. So there's a LOT more ignorance than knowledge and the model is but a gleam in our eyes. So we completely disagree and should probably arrange to fight to the death in crusade, or fatwah, as is demanded of serious acolytes of various religions. There's no mystery Slag. It's all just ignorance. Which is understandable when you consider that our puny little brains weigh little more than a kilogram, most of which is devoted to digestion, keeping tabs on what our skin is feeling, remembering where dinner is located and where the girls/boys are and how much money we have left. Mqurice PS: I'm working on my GSRS which I figure should be very useful. Another related project is to read tomorrow's newspaper today, which will be excellent for investing purposes. Some "technical analysts" are using cup and handle, head and shoulders, stochastic inverted differentials and all sorts of mumbo jumbo. Their fundamental flaw is that they are trying to measure the brains of what investors did previously to predict what they'll do tomorrow. Which is not measuring future reality, it's measuring the faulty model of previous and future reality stored in a bunch of 1 kg chimplike brains.