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Politics : A Neutral Corner -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Rambi who wrote (100)9/13/2005 1:04:15 PM
From: Mary Cluney  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 2253
 
If you can look at the poor of NOLA and say that our system is successful at changing lives for the better, I would be interested in how you come to that conclusion. And if you believe that more of the same will create change, that too, I am interested in hearing.

You are going to accuse me of being all over the map - but unless I really get down (and if I had the ability)and write a book about, my discussion will have to be superficial - although I will try not to be.

We are still in the early stages of civilization. I am more than half a century old, but our civilization (human) has only been in existense for perhaps 100 times that long. It is amazing that we got this far this fast.

I would have to think that systems in 4000 or 5000 years will get a lot better.

Having said that, we have to be realistic - about what we have to do now. We have to do the best we can with what we have.

Drastic change is probably not good. We can't expect to do too much. But we do need a vision. We need a road map.

Giving huge tax breaks to the wealthiest people and hope that some of their wealth will trickle down to the people of New Orleans is imo not a good idea, or vision, or whatever you want to call that notion.

There has to be a middle road, where the kholts can pursue their dreams without meeting with a lot of red tape and where public policy shows some compassion for those that can not or will not help themselves.



To: Rambi who wrote (100)9/13/2005 2:15:08 PM
From: Lane3  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 2253
 
What is WRONG with offering boarding schools? With removing children from the environment?

I've always been a big advocate of that. Well, maybe not always, but as long as I can remember. Get those kids outta there. If I had a huge trust fund to manage, that's where I would spend it.



To: Rambi who wrote (100)9/13/2005 3:07:13 PM
From: Constant Reader  Respond to of 2253
 
Yes, there was a 4th essay by Megan McArdle. For some reason I thought was part of the third. I think it is worth putting all of it on the thread, as you quoted some of it and I think the whole thing supports the points you have made this morning.

The poor really are different

The post below is complicated, for some conservatives, by the fact that if the poor acted like the middle class, they wouldn't have problems like no credit or savings.

If poor people did just four things, the poverty rate would be a fraction of what it currently is. Those four things are:

1) Finish high school
2) Get married before having children
3) Have no more than two children
4) Work full time

These are things that 99% of middle class people take as due course. In addition, there's some pretty good evidence that many people who are poor have personality problems that substantially contribute to their poverty.

For example, people with a GED do not experience significant earnings improvement over people who have not graduated from high school. In this credential-mad world, this simply should not be. And it is true even though people with a GED are apparently substantially more intelligent than people without a GED.

How can this be? Even if the GED were totally worthless, available evidence seems to indicate that intelligence carries a premium in the labour market.

The best explanation seems to be that people with a GED (as a group) are smart people with poor impulse control. What intelligence giveth, a tendency to make bad decisions taketh away. Anyone who has spent any time mentoring or working with poor families is familar with the maddening sensation of watching someone you care about make a devastating decision that no middle class person in their right mind would ever assent to.

So I think that conservatives are right that many of the poor dig themselves in deeper. But conservatives tend to take a moralistic stance towards poverty that radically underestimates how much cultural context determines our ability to make good decisions.

Sure, I go to work every day, pay my bills on time, don't run a credit card balance and don't have kids out of wedlock because I am planning for my future. But I also do these things because my parents spent twenty or so years drumming a fear of debt, unemployment, and illegitimacy into my head. And if I announce to my friends that I've just decided not to go to work because it's a drag, they will look at me funny--and if I do it repeatedly, they may well shun me as a loser. If I can't get a house because I've screwed up my credit, middle class society will look upon me with pity, which is painful to endure. If I have a baby with no father in sight, my grandmother will cry, my mother will yell, and my colleagues will act a little odd at the sight of my swelling belly.

In other words, middle class culture is such that bad long-term decision making also has painful short-term consequences. This does not, obviously, stop many middle class people from becoming addicted to drugs, flagrantly screwing up at work, having children they can't take care of, and so forth. But on the margin, it prevents a lot of people from taking steps that might lead to bankruptcy and deprivation. We like to think that it's just us being the intrinsically worthy humans that we are, but honestly, how many of my nice middle class readers had the courage to drop out of high school and steal cars for a living?

I'm not really kidding. I mean, I don't know about the rest of you, but when I was eighteen, if my peer group had taken up swallowing razor blades I would have been happily killed myself trying to set a world record. And if they had thought school was for losers and the cool thing to do was to hang out all day listening to music and running dime bags for the local narcotics emporium, I would have been right there with them. Lucky for me, my peer group thought that the most important thing in the entire world was to get an ivy league diploma, so I went to Penn and ended up shilling for drug companies on my blog.

Maybe you were different. But think back to the times--and you know there were times--when trying to win the approval of your peers convinced you to do things that were stupid, wrong, or both. Remember what it felt like to be sixteen and skinny and maybe not as charming and self confident as others around you, and ask yourself if you'd really be able to withstand their derision in order to go to college--especially if you didn't even know anyone who'd ever been to college, or have any but the haziest idea of what one might do when one got out. Try to imagine deciding to get a BA when doing so means cutting yourself off from the only world you know and launching yourself into a scary new place where everyone's wealthier, better educated, and more assured than you are.

Or take a minute right now and try to imagine how your friends would react if you announced that you'd decided to quit work, have a baby, and go on welfare. They'd make you feel like an outsider, wouldn't they? And isn't that at least part of the reason that you don't step outside of any of the behavioural boundaries that the middle class has set for itself?

Bad peer groups, like good ones, create their own equilibrium. Doing things that prevent you from attaining material success outside the group can become an important sign off loyalty to the group, which of course just makes it harder to break out of a group, even if it is destined for prison and/or poverty. I think it is fine, even necessary, to recognize that these groups have value systems which make it very difficult for individual members to get a foothold on the economic ladder. But I think conservatives need to be a lot more humble about how easily they would break out of such groups if that is where they had happened to be born.

That leaves us in a rather awkward place, because while I don't agree with conservatives that the poor are somehow worse people than we are, I also don't agree with liberals that money is the answer. Money buys material goods, which are not really the biggest problem that most poor people in America have. And I don't know how you go about providing the things they're missing: the robust social networks, the educational and occupational opportunity, the ability to construct a long-term life instead of one that is lived day-to-day. I think that we should remove the barriers, like poor schools, that block achievement from without, but I don't know what to do about the equally powerful barriers that block it from within.

But I also don't think that the answer is to use those barriers as an excuse to wash our hands of the matter.

janegalt.net



To: Rambi who wrote (100)9/15/2005 8:14:03 AM
From: Constant Reader  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 2253
 
Speaking of ideas, the Wall Street Journal provides a couple in their lead editorial this morning. (I bolded a few of them.) I italicized what I think is a concise and fair summary of the response to this disaster, too. (Your mileage may vary.) I'm not saying that the ideas are great, perfect, or doable (or not), but it is refreshing to someone, anyone with influence on the national stage advancing ideas for change, improvement and hope instead of recrimination and despair. If anyone who wants to opine on any of this, please do so.

Hurricane Bush

September 15, 2005; Page A20

President Bush addresses the nation on Hurricane Katrina tonight, and after keeping too quiet for too long there's a lot for him to say. We hope he tells Americans that such a demonstrable failure at all levels of government is a rare opportunity to change that government, not another excuse to expand it willy-nilly.

Two weeks after the hurricane, we have a clearer picture of both the storm damage and the bureaucratic mistakes. The former is happily lower in human terms than the 10,000 deaths predicted by New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, as of Tuesday much lower at 423 (659 throughout the region). The Gulf Coast has begun to rebuild, and even many residents of the Big Easy are returning to clean up the mess.

The political trauma that has followed Katrina is almost entirely a result of the slow, haphazard government response in the first days after the storm hit. Mayor Nagin had an evacuation plan sitting in a drawer but never got the buses in place to implement it. He then blamed everyone else. Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco froze amid the crisis and failed to deploy the National Guard properly to protect those stranded at the Convention Center and Superdome. She is still blaming everyone else.

FEMA was overwhelmed by the magnitude of the storm, and former director Michael Brown showed he was clueless about events that he could see merely by turning on his TV set. Notably, he is the only public official so far to lose his job, just as Mr. Bush is the only elected official who has so far accepted any public "responsibility."
Alas, tonight the President isn't likely to assail the Department of Homeland Security that he helped to create, but he at least ought to admit that federal and state disaster duties and communication need to be better sorted out. He could also praise the Pentagon's relief success.

Only in Washington, however, could so much government failure be used to justify expanding the size and scope of government. Some emergency money is essential. But Congress has already appropriated some $62 billion, with essentially zero accountability, to be spent by such models of compassion as the Department of Housing and Urban Development. Another $100 billion may soon follow. Ted Kennedy has proposed that Congress create another Tennessee Valley Authority for the Gulf region. Give them one more week to panic, and Republicans on Capitol Hill will be demanding another Great Society.

Mr. Bush has a chance tonight to turn all of this around. Instead of channeling more cash through the same failed bureaucracies, he should declare the entire Gulf Coast region an enterprise zone, with low tax rates for new investments and waivers for any regulatory obstacles to rebuilding. He can also learn from California's 1994 earthquake experience -- which former Governor Pete Wilson described on this page on Tuesday -- and demand emergency powers to waive rules and allow bonus payments for contractors that finish projects ahead of time.

Above all, he can reframe the entire debate on how to help the poor of New Orleans. The people who couldn't flee the storm were not ignored by "small government conservatism," as if that actually still exists outside of Hong Kong. The city's poor have been smothered by decades of corrupt, paternal government -- local, state and federal.

While Chicago and other cities leveled their public housing projects, the Big Easy has continued to run nasty places like the Lafitte homes. The city's crime rate is 10 times the national average, even as New York and other big cities have seen their rates fall. Its public schools are as bad as any, and its city government more corrupt than most. The last thing the poor need is to be returned to such tender, loving care.

This would include killing the idea, floated by the White House, of buying 300,000 mobile homes for the displaced. Governor Blanco wants to build communities of thousands of trailers for a year or more near Baton Rouge and Shreveport. Such shelter makes sense in some parts of the Gulf Coast where there literally is no housing stock left. But it is an act of insanity -- defined as repeating the same mistake over and over -- to recreate trailer-park versions of Lafitte on military bases, isolating the poor once again and returning them to dependence on the government. Far better to give them vouchers to find housing of their own, especially where there is unused rental space.

The same goes for the city's 77,000 displaced public school students. Their parents should be given vouchers for the equivalent of their tuition, with the option of using it at any school where they can find an opening, public or private. Charter schools should be allowed to expand immediately, and the Bush Administration could seek an emergency federal waiver of state charter laws to let them accept New Orleans kids now swamping other public schools.

There are other good ideas, but the key point is for Mr. Bush and Republicans to get back on the political and intellectual offensive. With media help, Democrats and the left have used Katrina to portray a systemic collapse of "conservative" government. It was certainly a collapse of government, but more accurately of bureaucracy and the welfare state. If Mr. Bush uses his bully pulpit to explain this, Americans will understand and follow.

URL for this article:
online.wsj.com