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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (39030)	9/18/2005 1:42:36 PM
From: 2MAR$	Respond to of 39621

He existed with God before the earth was created. He was there when God created the angels and the whole creation. That is quite irrelevant , but makes for such a great story, not unique . Since the Universe is eternal and you and I are composed of atoms and moelcules , we too are eternal , I would suppose . Sounds very "New Age" to me ! ;-) And BTW , have you seen any angels lately , or heard of their comings and goings or presence manifesting in the last 1000yrs ? Makes for good TV now , and was a great hit back then too. Jesus is not a new thing. yes , that is exactly the content of the post you are responding to....the idea of a "Christ" was definitely not a new thing . came to earth in the form of a man for a short time to redeem man according to God's plan. Redeem according to who's plan ? And that idea of the Godman Paul stole himself from the pagans , and those ideas that were brought westwards from the east and drifted in with the spice . Or had existed in Egypt already for 2000 yrs. The words themselves of "Redeem" or the "Wages of Sin" were of that lexicon of the Corinthian audiences who were a strategic seaport city of trade and corporations . It was the mish-mash word choosing of the priests and opportunist preachers like Saul , who wooed his Greek & Roman audiences as he plagiarized from their ancient Godman myths and beliefs , woven around a blanket of some old testament meandering and of the "Chosen People" idiocy . went back where he has been for eternity. God was with us Where is this eternity that one goes back too? That seems a paradox , but also one of the ideas we can say for sure was not even Hebrew in origins let alone Christianity , the bulk of which knows so little of it's own Christ's origins . And Paul wouldn't have known it either , except for the region of antiquity he himself was immersed in and surrounded by , as he looted their thoughts , their myths and their beliefs from and inserted it into his own ....while he made pup- tents for the Roman legions . The barbaric things were done by men, not God. If you want to place blame, place it where it belongs Yes , that's why we call it the age of reason now we are living in. There were plenty more barbaric people who were not Christians who did horrible things But not ones who based their total belief system on a " God of Love & Forgiveness " never said to do anything except love one another. You can't blame the evil on Him. I never supposed he was ever really talking to anyone but addressing the "reason" of his own fanatical warrior tribesman , and this he said himself . I would also suppose he was an ardent simple man , more akin to a Hebrew version of Robert Burns the poet farmer that charmed the wealthy with the wisdom of a simple man , who knew the blessings of hard work . The excesses of the rich , and the sufferings of the poor . But also that wealth also does not bring happiness ...but more often iniquity .

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (39030)	10/30/2005 1:39:32 AM
From: Cyprian	Respond to of 39621

this is the work of antichrist... Christians at home in church with Jewish elements news.rgj.com Geralda Miller (gmiller@rgj.com) RENO GAZETTE-JOURNAL October 29, 2005 Carmine Cantalupo, a fundamentalist Christian pastor, said he was "led" to a Reno church that blends Jewish scripture and culture with Christianity. On Saturday mornings he attends Beth Am Echad Messianic Congregation, a non-denominational church that emphasizes the Bible's Old and New Testaments. "We needed to learn more about what Jesus did, and that led us to a messianic congregation," Cantalupo said about himself and his wife, Charity. "This all goes back to the time of Jesus and what the Jewish people did and it's so awesome." Messianic Jews believe Jesus Christ, whom they call Yeshua, is the messiah. The mainstream Judaism belief is that the messiah has not yet come. Jews also believe anyone who believes Jesus is the messiah is not Jewish. That has caused some controversy, said Hy Kozak, pastor of the congregation. "They (Jewish people) don't look at us too kindly," Kozak said. "The attitude is that we've been part in helping Christians steal their God. That is the extreme essence." Kozak described his church as a place where Jewish and gentile believers come to participate in a fundamentalist, born-again type of service mixed with Jewish elements. The saying "the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed" is what they follow, he said. "We don't like to throw away one and just focus on the other," he said. "And as a result we also get into not just a question of what would Jesus do but what was his teaching. What was his culture and how did that affect his actual teachings and the words that he gave us in the New Testament specifically." Cantalupo joined about a dozen people during Oct. 22 services to celebrate Sukkot, the Jewish festival also known as the Feast of Tabernacles. The holiday commemorates the years the Jews wandered in the desert and lived in temporary shelters. During the seven-day holiday, Jews build shelters, called a sukkah, where they typically eat their meals. "If you read God's word, he commanded us to celebrate his feast," Cantalupo said. "We're not Jewish by birth, but we're adopted into God's family through Jesus Christ. So we are spiritual Jews." It was "a Holy Spirit movement" that Kozak said drew him from his Orthodox Jewish roots. "I stopped going to synagogue over 30 years ago," he said. "And then all of a sudden something swayed inside me. I wasn't really spiritually seeking or even spiritually involved or alive in anything when the whole thing happened." Growing up in Brooklyn, N.Y., he said he knows of Jewish families who have disowned their son or daughter and had burial ceremonies if they became Christian. But since his parents had already died, Kozak said he did not have that problem. "If the family is alive, and if they do have strong ties to the Jewish religion, it can be quite upsetting," Kozak said. People in the congregation take on as much of the Jewish tradition and culture as they wish. Some men choose to wear the prayer shawl, called a tallit, and others wear a yarmulke on their heads. Inside the ark on the altar are a Torah and a cross, emblematic of the Old and New Testament. The music takes Cara Kozak, music leader and the pastor's wife, to another place. With her tambourine, she says she is communicating with God. "This is a particular time when we can sing with our God," she said. "What I try to do is really sing out my heart to Him."