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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Hawkmoon who wrote (172509)10/14/2005 8:45:22 PM
From: bentway  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Of course, now there are questions about the authenticity of the letter found in Iraq.

Katzman, a terrorism expert with the Congressional Research Service -- the in-house think-tank of the U.S. Congress -- said the letter contained elements that raised doubts about its authenticity.

"The purported letter has Zawahri admitting to certain things that it's not realistic for him to admit, because he would know there's a potential this letter might be intercepted," Katzman said.

He said they included a request for money from Zarqawi, an admission that Pakistan's army is hunting for al Qaeda and how the arrest of a top operative affected the network.

Look, you can't help but question these guys. Their intelligence is too often either wrong or made up. Are those words too harsh for you? Then how about "inaccurate and wrong and in some cases, deliberately misleading" as Colin Powell put it?

On top of that, it just seemed too well-timed to go along with Bush's recent terror speech. There's a lot of that going around, though.

In the end, I can't say whether or not the document is real or not, but neither can any of the conservative bloggers who will trumpet this as an excuse to "stay the course." As a 13-year veteran of the armed forces, though, I find it repulsive that veterans like myself are put in the position where we're forced to decide whether our commander-in-chief is lying or al Qaeda is--and it's actually a hard decision!


However, what I find even more disgusting is this administration's use of the military as a wing of its party's propaganda machine. No, I'm not talking about the embarrassing bit of theater this morning (and, trust me, I know exactly how those things are put together), I'm talking about this web site that CentCom runs. Here's a snippet.

The letter demonstrates that pulling US forces out of Iraq is the wrong approach – that terrorists will not simply lay down their arms when American forces depart Iraq. Al-Qaida and its terrorist brethren will not go away when the Coalition hands over security control to Iraqi forces; rather, they are committed to overthrowing the elected, democratic Iraqi government and ruling the country according to their interpretation of Islamic law.

Quote: “And it is that the Mujahidin must not have their mission end with the expulsion of the Americans from Iraq , and then lay down their weapons, and silence the fighting zeal. We will return to having the secularists and traitors holding sway over us.”

Since when did it become the job of the military not to carry out a commander's orders but to justify them? Whatever happened to "ours is not to reason why"?

No one should be happy about the politicizing of the military (I've written about this before.) Would the Instapunditeers have liked it if the web had been flooded with "Why we're in Kosovo (and, no, it doesn't have anything to do with the president getting fellatio)" sites run by Wesley Clark? Hell, no. And neither would I. The military should not be a tool for either party.

Right now, I'm simply sickened by the fact that these goddamn chickenhawks feel like they can use the military in which they feared to serve as a tool for their wrongheaded, bullshit ideology. And, if you doubt my take on their leadership, consider this: If the Zawahiri letter is actually real, then doesn't it prove that the bad guys are actually smarter than the Bush administration? I mean, for all the claims that they're a bunch of thugs in a wounded operation, this letter, if true, proves that they're at least taking the time to do some post-war planning. The Bush administration, on the other hand, ignored the facts the were given and couldn't be bothered to plan for "winning the peace."

Because of that, sadly, there's no peace to win.

Update: As I said, I know how b.s. photo-ops are run in the military and, yeah, this sounds about right. (Link via Atrios.) Trust me, anyone who's ever even considered voting for a Democrat would be kept miles away from that little set-up. In fact, I was also ordered to stay away from Rush Limbaugh when he made his drive-by lying trip to Afghanistan. I was told by a Major that I couldn't disagree with the Commander-in-Chief on air. I said that the regs say nothing of the sort, but, anyway, I was going to disagree with Limbaugh if given the opportunity, not the president. I was told in no uncertain terms that I was to stay away. Limbaugh, she said, didn't want to deal with that on this trip. Like Bush, he's not only scared to serve, but scared of the honest opinions of those who do.

nitpicker.blogspot.com



To: Hawkmoon who wrote (172509)10/15/2005 8:48:46 AM
From: jttmab  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Yeah.. some recruiting tool.. I read something the other day... It was the story of this foreign fighter detainee who mentioned that from the time he entered Iraq (paying some smuggler $200 for the pleasure) until his capture, he was kept in isolation, away from Iraqis and denied any form of information.

That would be anecdotal. And doesn't say much about the general group. But let's say it does as you imply. Iraq is a recruiting tool that works. The foreign fighter actually paid someone $200. I'm going to assume that it was for the privelege of fighting as opposed to taking a family holiday in Tikrit.

Btw, did you see that letter from Zawahiri? Even he is getting nervous about Zarqawi's conduct. And no.. the letter is not a fake(despite Zawahiris denials about having written it).

It's a captured document.. taken from the site of a raid. I think that's about all I can say on the matter for now.


I'm relieved to know that the US can now distinguish between fake documents and real ones. That yellowcake document forgery was a minor embarassment to Powell. I don't know if you're aware of the intelligence we gathered in Iraq [from an informant and a subsequent raid] that indicated the terrorists were going to attack the NYC subway last week.

But ok. I can go with it's a real document. Are you aware that there are documents going around the US, like from Ret. Gen Odum [among many others] that indicate that that Bush's war is not the brightest move. I'm confident in those cases, you'll be quite confortable in saying they are wrong and Bush is right. So what if the Zawahiris letter is authentic? Does Zarqawi agree with it? Are fewer people dying because of the Zawahiri letter? Are you saying that you know that Zawahiri has a good grasp of the situation on the ground, but Zarqawi does not. Let's suppose that Zarqawi is sitting there saying, "Zawahiri makes some good points, I can adapt." Is that a good thing?

But we really should build them ourselves so we avoid exacerbating the foreign trade deficit.

You're not up to current conservative thinking. Deficits don't matter. Whether its Federal budget deficits or trade deficits, it doesn't matter. Bush just waived a requirement of law that US flag carriers are no longer required to transport oil in US ports. That business has been turned over to foreign flag carriers and parts of the US merchant marine are now sitting idle.

It all depends.. I can't really discuss that issue except to say that in many cases the evidence that initially justifies their detention is based upon "non-public" sources. Thus, most of can't be used by the Iraqi magistrate court to obtain a conviction.

But it keeps them off the streets and allows us to chat with them a bit..


They are back on the street again. You can sleep well knowing they pledged to be nice Iraqis.

jttmab



To: Hawkmoon who wrote (172509)10/15/2005 8:06:36 PM
From: geode00  Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 281500
 
The Zawahiri letter doesn't make any sense. It's supposedly addressed to Zarqawi but then it says to give greetings to Zarqawi.