I'd BET both Kirby and John will have plenty to say tomorrow....
The PI says this about the 912 situation: Under Snark Attack!
seattlepi.nwsource.com
Now the radio ramblers at KVI claim they can't say anything about I-912 for fear of exceeding the in-kind campaign contribution limits, thanks to an earlier court ruling that their flagrant flogging of the gas-tax-repeal measure and their proponents' role in it amounted to a campaign contribution. Guys, you don't have to shut up; you just have to be, well, fair and balanced.
-- Thomas Shapley
88888 88888 88888
So Jim Miller says this on the Sound Politics blog...
soundpolitics.com
This Is Funny
But I am not sure that Thomas Shapley realizes it.
Now the radio ramblers at KVI claim they can't say anything about I-912 for fear of exceeding the in-kind campaign contribution limits, thanks to an earlier court ruling that their flagrant flogging of the gas-tax-repeal measure and their proponents' role in it amounted to a campaign contribution. Guys, you don't have to shut up; you just have to be, well, fair and balanced.
And the Seattle PI has been "fair and balanced" on this issue?.
The PI's editorials have been just as much campaign contributions as the talk of Kirby Wilbur and John Carlson. Thomas Shapley's political speech should not be limited. Neither should Kirby Wilbur's or John Carlson's. And neither should anyone else's, regardless of whether they are officially journalists. Once, believe it or not, many newspapers supported that simple principle from our First Amendment. This example shows, once again, why all of us should.
In general, talk radio programs are much better at telling both sides than our "mainstream" newspapers. Most hosts like to have callers from the other side because it creates controversy that draws listeners. Some hosts, notably Michael Medved, seek out leftist guests regularly. Newspapers are far less open to a range of opinions.
(I should add that I have a generally good opinion of Shapley and think him more open to conflicting ideas than most of our local journalists.)
Posted by Jim Miller at 09:16 AM | Comments (29) | Email This
So the bloggers on SoundPolitics sound off this way....
Comment on Entry: This Is Funny, authored by Jim Miller
Useless idiot.
Posted by JCM at October 22, 2005 09:20 AM
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Just what part of “make no law” does Shapley not understand? Has he even read the First Amendment? His comments indicate he has neither knowledge or understanding.
Any wonder why to Least Intelligence is going into the tank.
Posted by JCM at October 22, 2005 09:26 AM
Surely you're not suggesting that mere citizens should have the same rights as Real, Honest-to-God Journalists?
Fascist!
Posted by ScottM at October 22, 2005 09:29 AM
Perfect example of a double standard. MSM are the biggest violaters of "fair and balanced" reporting. Totally fries me that they are not forced to report their articles and editorials as "in kind contributions", they certainly qualify. It is because of biased MSM that Kirby and Carlson have such a large audience.
Would be confident this ruling will be reversed in a higher court, execpt this is Washington so it's kinda scary.
Posted by dl at October 22, 2005 09:53 AM
From what I've heard of this, it sounds like a "Strategic Litigation Against Public Participation" or SLAPP suit in a slightly different context.
This also strikes me as being a concrete example of the blogger objection to McCain-Feingold (BCRA).
Posted by Dishman at October 22, 2005 10:30 AM
It seems we only ascribe the term "fair and balanced" to those voices who say the things we want to hear, regardless of their accuracy.
To imply that Carlson and Wilbur are fair and balanced while the Seattle Times is biased to the left, or "Fascist!" as Scott puts it, is to reveal your own media bias. You will believe anything as long as it fits your own view of reality and reject anything that does not.
I guess that's why there is such a high correlation between conservatives and "people of faith." Unfortunately, reality so often intrudes with unpleasant results.
Posted by Unkl Witz at October 22, 2005 10:30 AM
That judges liberal BS bias will never never stand up in the highest courts of the 1st amendment. He is absolutely nothing more than a political hack. Vote him out. KVI Keep talking and take it to the highest courts. If the Seattle Times can editorialize their I912 BS every single day, then KVI can give the Yes to I912 side.
Posted by GS at October 22, 2005 10:31 AM
If John Carlson and Kirby Wilburs endorsement of I-912 is considered an in kind contribution, how come the P-I, Seattle Times or any other papers editorial endorsment against 912 isn't considered the same? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Posted by Dave at October 22, 2005 10:35 AM
I guess that must imply that the high correlation between progressives and "people who lack faith" confirms their reality of " If you can't convince them on the merits of your argument, have a judge shut them up."
Posted by Roscoe at October 22, 2005 10:51 AM
Roscoe...unfortunately true in Washington..."If you can't convince them on the merits of your argument, have a judge shut them up."
Uncle...we ALL listen more often to those who agree with our point of view. But if MSM was less biased their readership would be increasing instead of decreasing. People are searching for alternatives, BECAUSE MSM bias is so blatent, not because it doesn't exist.
And the unconstitutional action of squelching free speach on any side of the debate...it's appallng and unamerican (that's the facism Uncle).
Posted by dl at October 22, 2005 11:14 AM
Unkl Witz,
I don't think John and Kirby are particularly fair or balanced, but that's not the point. They have a right to use their press to say what they want to say just as much as the Seattle PI does. You have a right to use your own press to criticize what they say, and we have a right to use our press criticize the PI.
The only restriction is that Sound Politics is Stefan's (printing) press, KVI belongs to Fisher Comm, and the Seattle PI belongs to whoever owns them. If one of them grants you permission to use their press, they have a right to set the terms of that permission. If you don't like them, you can make your own at the price of some time in the library with Blogger.
Posted by Dishman at October 22, 2005 11:19 AM
Unkl Witz said: "To imply that Carlson and Wilbur are fair and balanced while the Seattle Times is biased to the left, or "Fascist!"
Unkl, you are missing the point entirely. No one is implying impartiality by KVI, just that there is a double standard being applied here. At least John and Kirby admit that the KVI coverage has been decidedly pro 912. And while the MSM coverage has been just the opposite (and often shamefully subtly but purposely so) they will not admit as much. Since good journalism outside of editorial pages should at least attempt to be objective I think that they are even a better candidate to pay as in-kind contributors if we are going to go down that road. And John and Kirby are essentially editorialist so why does not the in-kind decision apply to other editorial content?
I mean come on, the TNT recently posted a piece against 912 that was written by the owner of a local construction/paving company. At least the writer made that clear, but given that it makes it hard to digest his reasoning when his own profit motive clouds his judgement in my book.
Posted by Gary P at October 22, 2005 11:24 AM
My question is why hasn't this ruling been appealed?
The judge in this case has a long history of inventing the law to meet and serve his own agenda and interest groups.
When Rep Brendan Williams shells out campaign contributions for a judge- you can be sure its for a purebreed activist.
The fact that it hasn't been appealed to a higher court is almost as absurd as the ruling itself.
Posted by Andy at October 22, 2005 11:57 AM
Unkl Witz,
Since you've failed every single reading test. Let's try this one.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
What part of "make no law" and "abridging the freedom of speech" do you not understand?
Are you really so ignorant that the founders meant the 1st Amendment especially for political speech.
What Constitutional basis can you justify forcing a any media outlet to proscribe content to meet anyones definition of "fair and balanced."
Where is "fair and balanced" mentioned in the 1st Amendment? Or any where in the Constitution, founding documents?
I find it appalling that someone, anyone claiming to be an American, from McCain, to the PI to you would even suggest limiting political speech. One of shared idea that make America is the free marketplace of ideas.
If you are against (the tenor of your post suggest so) free exchange of ideas, you are against the very underlying idea of American.
Posted by JCM at October 22, 2005 12:15 PM
JCM, it is worse than that.
or abridging the freedom of speech
or of the press;
and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
It violates three separate clauses of the First.
Posted by Al at October 22, 2005 03:04 PM
Of course there is a difference between having a bias, and being an outright liar like half-witz AKA Rich Kiker.
You have zero credibility here half-witz.
Posted by alphabet soup at October 22, 2005 03:41 PM
Andy -
They are appealing the ruling, and apparently the hearing is being moved up to this week.
Witz -
KVI is "fair and balanced" in that they're open about they're biases and take many callers and invite guests who disagree frequently to discuss what ever the issue of the day is. That's more than can be said about the PI. Nearly every other paper in this state (including the Times) at least has the intelectual honesty to support KVI in this, even though they disagree with Carlson and Wilbur's position on I-912.
Posted by Mike H at October 22, 2005 04:03 PM
Actually, Unkl Witz, I was jocularly calling Jim Miller a fascist.
Reading comprehension is our friend.
Posted by ScottM at October 22, 2005 05:32 PM
ScottM,
I have determined Witz has a reading deficency, we given him tons of links to source documents, disproving virtually everything he has ever stated around here.
He knows so many things that just are not so.
Posted by JCM at October 22, 2005 05:39 PM
Jim's analogy of KVI Talk radio's version of free speech and the Media's *endorsements* of initiatives and candidates is pretty much the same as what I'm hearing from people on the street!
This attempt to stifle pro-I 912 talk is going to backfire on the anti's.
People are just lumping the Democrat's oppression of property rights, freedom of speech, etc..together. The Democrats are going to be in huge trouble in November. The citizens just didn't fall for the liberal legislature's bogus *emergency* clause to take our money! We are losing our rights and our money and Democrats are to blame. Simple as that.
People just aren't that stupid anymore.
Posted by Deborah at October 22, 2005 08:08 PM
Gosh, I dunno Deb, they were dumb enough to buy Bush's "war on terrorism in Iraq," why not some emergency improvements to our local infrastructure?
Posted by Unkl Witz at October 22, 2005 08:12 PM
Half-witz, We know you can't help making up the crap you do, but you need to at least stay on topic (you imbecile!)
Posted by alphabet soup at October 22, 2005 08:54 PM
Gosh, Unkl Witz, why didn't you apologize for claiming I said something I didn't say?
I mean, anyone can make an idiotic mistake, but failing to admit it and apologize pretty much marks you as a lying scumbag.
Posted by ScottM at October 22, 2005 09:20 PM
Reading lesson Witz, go back and read the Iraq use of force resolution passed by congress. I guess that makes Hillary and Kerry and Edwards "dumb."
You remain intentionally ignorant, that make you worse than dumb.
Since you're so into non-sequiturs how about McDermott raising money to pay off his fines and penalties for his little felony tape transfer so he can "bring peace" to Iraq. Who would be dumb enough to donate money to an admitted felon (where is the dems outrage over corruption) to pay off fines and penalties.
Oh and since I know you'll toss Delay back at me, remember that law Delay was charged under was enacted 2 years after the fund raising in question, you can't charge someone retroactively for a crime when it was legal at the time the activity took place. Then the other charge "conspiracy" how can you conspire illegally to commit a legal act?
Posted by JCM at October 22, 2005 10:41 PM
Speaking of I-912 reporting, did anyone read the Mark Trahantism's in the Sunday P-I? It appears that he will be leading the crusade against I-912 on the opinion pages of the PI. He vow's to write an opinion a day against some aspect of I-912 until the election is over because the initiative is so "venial". He's going to show us how there is no "pork" in this current 9.5 cent gas tax and that DOT is largely reformed and performing well. It is amazing to me that someone who has said he is going to mount a crusade AGAINST an initiative doesn't rise to the same kind of "advocacy" charges leveled against KVI. Hey PDC? Hey Judge Wickham? Are you Deaf and Blind? Or like most of the rest of us, do you consider the "value" of Mark Trahant's work and that of the PI to never being capable of reaching the threshold necessary to constitute a violation.
Posted by Roscoe at October 23, 2005 09:28 AM
Roscoe,
The PI is objectively reporting on the issues, didn't you get the memo?
Liberal dictionary:
Objective -- stories, reporting and opinion that agrees with the leftist agenda.
1st amendment -- applies to only speech that promotes the leftist agenda.
Opposition -- right wing hate mongers.
No worries, we will be socialist soon and then they can take all our money and provide everything we need. Remember we aren't smart enough to use our money, plan for the future, or know what the elite's are doing for us.
Posted by JCM at October 23, 2005 11:39 AM
JCM....Oh I GOT the memo last November! I just wonder how anybody who walks upright and has opposable thumbs can believe any of the tripe the PI/TIMES Directorate puts out on a daily basis.
Posted by Roscoe at October 23, 2005 12:33 PM
I don't listen to KVI because I want to hear KIRO's side of the issues. There's several stations to choose from. Print, however, has the editorial monopoly or should I say "monotony" ?
If I want "fair and balance" I'll go to Puyallup in September and watch a high-wire act.
Watch the campaign contributions to that kangaroo-court judge next time and do the dot-to-dot on how many came from the benefactors to the gas tax increase.
Posted by PC at October 23, 2005 01:54 PM
You're right. Shapley's comment is funny. Unintentionally so, I'm sure, but still funny. You said, "The P-I's editorials have been just as much campaign contributions as the talk of Kirby Wilbur and John Carlson." I'd amend that in just one way: So have the P-I "news" stories by Chris McGann.
Posted by jsa at October 23, 2005 02:49 PM |
