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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (5248)	11/13/2005 10:59:52 AM
From: Mary Cluney	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 543061

Having done lots of studies of these sorts of things, I know that people will hide things if they feel that they will be blamed. What kinds of study did you do? Was it anything like employees were using a higher priced delivery service (Fedex) rather than similar but lower cost US Postal service? Or, was it anything like who authorized illegal torture methods or leaking of classified information to further political agenda that caused unnecessary death and destruction? IMO there is accountability and then there is accountability. But I agree with you in that fixing things are more important than retribution. Sometimes, however, you need to provide incentives for flipping those lower in the food chain of those accountable to flush out the die hard foreign ideologues. By foreign, I mean those that espouse ideas (like torture) that is alien to our value system.

To: Lane3 who wrote (5248)	11/13/2005 2:37:34 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 543061

Apparently even the CIA doesn't like beating people to death. Maybe the ones who do it like it, although that's hard to imagine. But there are plenty of people willing to rat them out, because it's just not something we as Americans admire. There are plenty of places in the world where torturers and executioners can feel like big men and brag about it. This isn't one of them.

To: Lane3 who wrote (5248)	11/13/2005 2:46:22 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 543061

I skipped a couple of thoughts on the way to the bottom line. We aren't talking about tiny little problems that can be covered up. We're talking about great big huge problems that can't be covered up especially if people are willing to rat each other out or blow the whistle or whatever you call it. It may be one of the ultimate ironies that the CIA, which Lindy Bill types are always kvetching about as being disloyal to Bush, are the ones protecting Bush and Cheney's reputation, such as it is. Porter Goss doesn't have enough juice to shut them all up. Even a GS 14 or 15 can make two or three times as much in private industry these days, so firing them just isn't much of a threat, and who's going to prosecute them for telling the truth? The CIA and the DIA and State seem to be competing to see who can rat each other out sooner. Because once Bush is done, the next President is almost certain to be a Democrat. Oh, here's the other step I left out. Bush has these people breaking US law. The argument is that during war time Congress can't tell him what to do when it comes to waging war. That's the same argument Reagan used during Iran-Contra. It's never been tested. I don't think he really wants to test it. He doesn't have enough votes on the Supreme Court, is my estimate, although who knows about Alito? A lot of people were convicted over Iran-Contra. For, if you recall, lying to Congress.

To: Lane3 who wrote (5248)	11/13/2005 5:09:07 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 543061

Speaking of Porter Goss, just came in from stripping the bannister in the driveway, on old newspapers, and saw a front page story about experienced agents leaving the CIA in droves, so much that it's actually a problem. Middle of September, I think, at any rate the day before Saddam's trial started, that was another headline. Today's Washington Post has on the front a story about experienced lawyers quitting the Justice Department in droves. I suppose the "explanation" is that they are all Clinton era people who are incompentent and have bad attitudes and good riddance. I guess there is no shortage of young college grads who are eager for the jobs, either. Lots of young graduates from various Christian colleges, no doubt. White skin, blue eyes, blond hair, no knowlege of Arabic or any other Middle Eastern language, no understanding of Middle Eastern history, but very loyal.