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Politics : Don't Blame Me, I Voted For Kerry -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dan B. who wrote (69837)	11/15/2005 11:56:55 AM
From: American Spirit	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 81568

The GOP Senate has now given up on the Iraq War. Congress will follow. You may say it's because they fear re-elections and you'd be right, but it's also because Bush-Cheney failed. If they had succeeded in Iraq we'd probably forgive their lies, manipulations, politicization of the war, no-bid crony contracts and demonization of critics, but since they failed and lied and cheated, forget about it, they're out. Bush-Cheney just hit another low in thepolls yesterday. It's a slide with no end in sight, mainly due to the war and the lies surrounding it.

To: Dan B. who wrote (69837)	11/15/2005 12:30:37 PM
From: Orcastraiter	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 81568

I don't think there is any credibility left for these INC defectors. Everything they have said has been shown to be unreliable. Do you have one shred of information from the defectors that turned out to be true? No you don't...because they were practicing deception: The information included a claim by an INC-supplied defector, Adnan Ihsan al-Haideri, that he had visited 20 secret nuclear-, biological- and chemical-warfare facilities in Iraq. Haideri's claim first appeared in a Dec. 20, 2001, article in The New York Times and then in a White House background paper, "A Decade of Deception and Defiance," released in conjunction with a Sept. 12, 2002, speech to the U.N. General Assembly by Bush. Haideri, however, showed deception in a CIA-administered lie detector test three days before The New York Times article appeared, and was unable to identify a single illicit arms facility when he accompanied U.S. weapons inspectors to Iraq in January 2004. The White House background paper also cited INC-produced defectors' claims that Saddam ran a terrorist training camp outside Baghdad in Salman Pak where Iraqi and non-Iraqi Islamic extremists were schooled in assassination, sabotage, and the hijacking of aircraft and trains. After the war, U.S. officials determined that a facility in Salman Pak was used to train Iraqi anti-terrorist commandos. seattletimes.nwsource.com When unreliable sources say things, were much better off turning a deaf ear to them. In the case of INC defectors, our own CIA has said they were liars. If your only evidence is the defector's word, then I'd say your evidence is flawed. I put more faith in the US investigators than the Iraqi defectors. Orca

To: Dan B. who wrote (69837)	11/15/2005 12:48:00 PM
From: Orcastraiter	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 81568

Additional information on Salman Pak: The Salman Pak (al-Salman) facility was a top secret Iraqi military facility located approximately 15 miles south of Baghdad on a peninsula formed by a broad eastward bend of the Tigris River, near the town of Salman Pak. The facility grounds comprised approximately 20 square kilometres, was completely fenced in and the perimeter was patrolled by armed guards 24 hours a day. The facility was used by the Mukhabarat (Iraqi Intelligence) to train Iraqi militia groups such as the Fedayeen in use of military small arms, RPG's, assassination, espionage, and counter insurgency techniques. Shortly after the September 11 attacks, members of Ahmed Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress promoted claims that the facility was used to train the hijackers. Sabah Khodada, a former captain in the Iraqi Army, claimed that the attacks had been carried out by people who had been trained in Iraq. In a PBS special on US television, a man identified only "an Iraqi Lieutenant General", claimed that in 2000 he had been "the security officer in charge of the unit" at Salman Pak and had seen Arab students being taught how to hijack airliners using a Boeing 707 fuselage at Salman Pak. Seymour Hersh, writing in the New Yorker, investigated this claim. He reported that he spoke separately to "a former C.I.A. station chief and a former military intelligence analyst" and both said that the camp had been built with the assistance of the United Kingdom's MI6 in the late 1980s "not for terrorism training but for counter-terrorism training." The former CIA official thought it unlikely that a plane would be required for training in hijacking, but that "to take one back you have to practice on the real thing." Standard counter-hijacking methods, since Operation Entebbe, involve distracting the hijackers and drawing them into the cockpit while simultaneously entering the body of the jet by surprise. Prior to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, it was also claimed that Salman Pak was at one time the central facility or a major facility in a biological warfare program. en.wikipedia.org Orca