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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: mistermj who wrote (175007)	11/15/2005 5:45:33 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

"Does the end justify the means for you?" That's kind of funny- because I use that line all the time about Iraq.

To: mistermj who wrote (175007)	11/15/2005 6:48:57 PM
From: jttmab	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Does the end justify the means for you? That's an interesting question. Secret detention facilities in Poland would be a violation of EU law. Classifying to protect criminal activities from being made public is a violation of US law. Sending UAVs into Iran would be a violation of international law. jttmab

To: mistermj who wrote (175007)	11/16/2005 5:18:36 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Mjfdl, re: "You never answered my original question. I'll ask it again. Does the end justify the means for you? Was that a serious question? If it was you must live in a magical, black and white world. But let's test your implied rules in some real world situations: Lying is bad. It's 1939 in Nazi Germany and you're Jewish. There's a knock on your door. Your wife and kids are hiding in the room behind you. The browncoat says "We're looking for Jews, do you know of any?" But of course the ends don't justify the means so you tell him, "Only myself, my wife and our 4 children." Stealing other people's property is bad. You've been lost in the mountains of Colorado in a snow storm. It's been days since you've eaten, your clothes are worn through, your shoes are torn and wet and you're almost dead. You come across a cabin but it's locked and there's a "Keep Out, I mean it" sign on the door. Of course you stumble on wishing there'd been someone there. Because, after all, the question is whether the ends justify the means and that's a black and white issue, isn't it? Or is it? Anytime we make a decision that has an associated cost that must be paid to secure a benefit we ask ourselves, "Do the ends justify the means." And as far as the "leak" issue, I already answered your question in my response to your "Leaking classified information is bad" post. Don't be dogmatic. Ed PS. On the issue of responding, do you ever respond to an issue in a way that moves the discussion forward rather than sideways into new issues that you then avoid discussing?