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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: MrLucky who wrote (5358)	11/15/2005 7:59:24 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 542970

There were many democrats who did not support it- I'd like to see a little more nuance in the opinions of some (and only some) conservatives, when they slam all dems as hypocrites, when not all dems voted for the war. Aside from that I agree with you. Those dems who voted for the war need to see "OOOPS we blew it. We SHOULD have checked things out more carefully, or maybe we SHOULD have read a couple of books on Iraq so we knew what we were getting in to." I'll be honest with you MrLucky- you can go back and check my posts- I'm not expert on Iraq, but I did not believe Saddam was continuing his weapons programs. I did not know WHY he was blustering, and refusing to comply, but I did not see him as a major threat- and you can check my posts on that. From what I knew about Iraq, I did not think it was wise to go in and depose Saddam- because as awful as he was (and he was) he's not more awful than many other leaders (especially in the petrostans) and I saw him as holding the country together- which I think we can all agree now he was. I also thought that once the country was broken apart, there were only a few options- and topping the list were the possibilities of civil war, or an extreme religious government- similar to what we are seeing emerge in Afghanistan. I really didn't see the point in sending American men and women to fight for a Muslim Theocracy. I think if I could figure these things out, other democrats- and especially people who purport to be our leaders, can and SHOULD have. And yes, they need to get down on their knees and beg my forgiveness, for being for the war because they were afraid to be labled traitors. That's a big part of it. After 9/11 people were SO ready to see anyone with an independent thought as some sort of traitor to our country. There was a vile thread on SI that labled people "Bin Laden Lovers" if they disagreed with the party line, and quite frankly it's a pretty fair summation of the lemming-like mood the country was in at the time. Do I understand why people are lemmings, and cave in to social pressure? Sure- we see it time and time again in history. But I can't forgive them for it, not if they have a brain. Those with head traumas, comas, strokes (serious ones), serious drinking problems, and alzheimers, and certain serious mental illnesses, I will excuse for being lemmings, but no one else.

To: MrLucky who wrote (5358)	11/16/2005 1:07:52 AM
From: Dale Baker	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 542970

When this was tried, it was viciously and jeeringly attacked as "flip-flopping" by everyone in the administration, a lack of resolve, a lack of understanding, and an indication that anyone saying that was unfit to be a leader. It would be nice if they were truthful about it. It merely takes a sentence or two. "Yes, I voted to support war etc. Yes, I said there were weapons. However, I have changed my mind and do not support this war any longer." But, then I forget. There might not be an honest politician anywhere on this planet. Bush and company slammed the door on that approach very soundly. Unless they have changed their position now - but wouldn't that be inconsistent flip-flopping after all the 2004 campaign rhetoric they put on the record? It's a glaring contradiction. I agree with you about the lack of honest politicians just about anywhere. Party affiliation is certainly no guaranteed of ethics or morals on either side.