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To: ild who wrote (41989)	11/30/2005 2:25:04 PM
From: NOW	Respond to of 116555

"2. 'redefinining success' - that's a good one. it'll take some doing. let's see...'we have totally succeeded in installing a theocratic right-wing Shi'ite Islamist government in Iraq, death squads, torture chambers and all. they're good friends with the other nice mullah friends next door. we've also left them with a spot of total chaos to make things more interesting. success is our middle name!'' That is a keeper...

To: ild who wrote (41989)	11/30/2005 2:39:18 PM
From: regli	Respond to of 116555

>the US used to have an excellent reputation in the Arab world for a very long time. i have been surprised to learn this, but it is true. the US was always seen as the anithesis of the former European colonial powers...the high point probably came when Eisenhower intervened in the Suez crisis ( it's probably been downhill ever since, but i think it's fair to say that it took several decades of misguided US foreign policy to destroy the goodwill the US once enjoyed in Arab eyes ) . < This is correct and a very important point. However, it wasn't just U.S. foreign policy that caused problem but at least in Saudi Arabia, the lack of development and inclusion of Saudis within Aramco and its management fueled anger among the middle and upper classes in Saudi Arabia. When I was there (early to mid 80s), Aramco supplied 90% of the revenue to the Saudi state. When I joined Aramco, before the official takeover by Saudis, there was a single Saudi manager with a grade code 16 and above. Up to that point, Americans had a number of cities (called camps) basically to themselves where rules and laws of Saudi Arabia did not apply at all. For example, in Dhahran, women could drive, alcohol was for all practical purposes legal and there was no dress code for men nor women. However we might judge these laws, to the Saudis they were very important. It should be noted that the major administrative offices were in the heart of Dhahran and Saudis, if they needed to meet with management needed to enter a city where their value judgements were simply trampled upon. The Shiites felt even worse as they were excluded by the Saudis Sunni rulers and despised by U.S. management of Aramco as troublemakers.