Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dale Baker who wrote (6365)	12/8/2005 1:34:34 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542152

What other parts of your citizenship duties do you consider optional? I didn't say that we don't have duties or responsibilities. I said that we haven't really agreed to any contract. Also I would add that our moral responsibilities are not really set by law. The law should rather conform to our rights and responsibilities. To the extent it doesn't it may be considered an unjust law. As far as the draft I consider it to always be unjust. It might be an acceptable injustice but only if there is a strong reason to think that it is both necessary and sufficient to defend our country. Under such circumstances it would be in the same category (even if somewhat less odious) as torture to find out the location of the proverbial "ticking bomb". And if they aren't optional, are you simply a victim of a coercive government or the participant in an agreement which confers both benefits and obligations? I don't see how one can view citizenship as anything other than such an arrangement. I don't see how one can view citizenship as such an arrangement. To have an agreement you have to have two or more parties who agree and signify agreement to each other. OTOH for my particular case, at least for the period of my enlistment I did make an agreement. "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." But 1 - The agreement is temporary and my enlistment has been over for some time. No one agrees to obey the orders of the president for the rest of their lives. Also note that if you re-enlist you have to make the oath again. 2 - "Support and defend the constitution" doesn't mean you are agree to support and defend, or even accept unconstitutional acts. 3 - Even during the period of enlistment, and even if you take an expansive view of the terms of the oath, there is still a distinction between the solider and the government. The solider may function as an agent of the government, but he is still also a person apart from the government. Not everything he does is as an agent of the government and he still bears responsibility for his own actions (and not just to the government). Tim