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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (6567)	12/11/2005 9:26:24 AM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542155

I had seen Guns on TV and found it fascinating. Didn't know the author had a second book. Sounds interesting, as well. "“Guns Germs and Steel” and “Collapse” by Jared Diamond. Very interesting books by a very interesting guy . The first book is the easiest to summarize. “Guns Germs and Steel” is about environmental determinism. How the original climate, terrain, plants and animals on a continent determined which people develop technology and plagues. Full of detail, it makes a powerful case for why history unfolded as it did. The second is more complicated. “Collapse” is about why societies succeed or fail. Tough question to answer, but Mr Diamond does a good job. It's really tough summarizing this one. Any of the pat phrases I could use would not do the subject justice. One thing he does point out, at the end of the book, is that many countries experiencing political turmoil, are also the ones experiencing environmental collapse. Afghanistan is near the top of both lists More below the fold: I wanted to experiment with Itunes audiobook downloads, so I bought both books from Apple. It makes it kind of hard to go back and reference the books, but I will give it a shot. However, I am impressed enough with both books that I am going to buy them in hard cover editions. “Guns Germs and Steel” It's very interesting how big an impact draft animals can make on a society. In a world completely dominated by fossil fuels I had forgotten how difficult it is to haul large loads over great distances. We think nothing about loading up a truck or car with “trade good” and going home for the holidays. We take the road, wheel and horsepower for granted. Just try that in prehistoric or preindustrial times. If you have to walk everywhere and carry everything on your back, life gets really difficult. In stone age times you couldn't use just any stone as a tool. You needed a very specific type. A good deposit of stone was just as important as a good deposit of metal ore and just as rare. If you need more stone for tools you have to walk to the quarry and carry it home. Anyone on this web site carry a large load of stone through untamed wilderness lately? Or consider the ready availability of rototillers and fertilizers. A draft animal isn't just about meat. It can pull a plow and till soil to tough for a simple digging stick. And it can eat plants you can't, making them into fertilizer in the process. The whole book brought home how important food is. We take it so for granted. Being able to jump in the car and and purchase everything we need to survive. Famine was a constant problem prior to modern times. A late or early snow, to much or to little rain, poor soil or erosion means you all starve. We were at the absolute mercy of climate and soil conditions. No wonder we have such problems with obesity. It use to be a really useful thing to be fat. “Collapse” “Collapse” takes the other side of the coin. Once a society develops why do some over exploit their environment till they self destruct. I hadn't realized how much Rwandas overpopulation contributed to the genocide that occurred there. They were apparently farming every square foot of available land. I guess it also should not come as a surprise that the ethnic violence didn't really respect ethnic lines. People took the collapse of society as a chance to even old scores, kill family members and dispose of the weak and vulnerable members of societies. Widows and orphans seem to have been the largest subset of the population to suffer attrition. According to Diamond the “why” of how a society collapses falls into four categories. 1) No prior experience with a similar problem in current generation, or society has forgotten about similar problems that occurred in the past: The Indonesian tsunami or the oil crisis in the 1970's come to mind as examples. The threats have occurred in the past but society didn't integrate the lessons learned. So when it happens again everyone is surprised. An interesting side note is that some Indonesian subcultures did remember about tsunamis and managed to avoid mass casualties when last years wave hit. 2) Failure to perceive the problem, creeping normalcy, landscape amnesia: The problem happens so slowly that each successive generation thinks the world always was this way. Tree loss on Easter Island didn't happen overnight, it took generations. 3) Rational behavior: An individual can prosper in his society by greed and destructive behavior. He prospers but the society as a whole looses. An example of this would be the “Tragedy of the commons” where everyone shares a common resource, then the users exploit it till its gone. They rationalize their actions by thinking, “If I don't harvest it someone else will”. 4) Irrational behavior: Cultural or religious values prevent a society from adapting to a threat. Also placing short term survival over longterm. An example would be cutting down an orchard for heating fuel then starving for lack of fruit next year. I have just touched the tip of the iceberg for both books. There is so many unique concepts and thoughts in them that I am going to have to read them a couple more times to absorb everything. Note: According to Diamond, it looks like Australia is the front runner to be the first “first world” country to self destruct. Poor rainfall patterns and no volcanic activity to renew the soil. They have managed to get one of their rivers to have a higher salinity than the ocean. That's a problem not easily solved. Posted by BobJYoung at December 10, 2005" centristcoalition.com