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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: michael97123 who wrote (6998)	12/16/2005 12:07:44 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 540794

They don't like what bush has done- that does NOT mean they are rooting for failure. Thinking that a failure is likely to occur, is not rooting for it. This is a point that is constantly confused. Bush has already failed as far as I am concerned. Even if the outcome in Iraq is positive, it will be because of luck, and it will have been the wrong thing to do for the wrong reasons. That is no way to operate. Does that mean I, or other people on the left, WANT Iraq to fail- no, it does not. I completely disagree with you about how you characterize other people. I do not wish to explore it any more.

To: michael97123 who wrote (6998)	12/16/2005 12:30:18 PM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 540794

I hope you can read this piece with an open mind. Mike Mike, this is Dale's thread so I probably shouldn't be acting as a sort of moderator but I can's skip this. One of the better things about this thread is that this sort of "in your face" posting is discouraged. There are lots of ways to bring Peters' arguments to our attention without accusing e of bad faith.

To: michael97123 who wrote (6998)	12/16/2005 12:59:58 PM
From: epicure	Respond to of 540794

To answer you about the article, I am not a member, so I can't read the post. I don't like the way it starts though. The problems are not with the voting, but with what happens after the voting. I would say the same thing about that that I said last month, or last year. The chances of a civil war and partition, or an Iran style theocracy remain very high. There is not a lot the US can do to stop these things from happening, and, in fact, many actions on our part could actually push the Iraqis closer to Iran, and fundamentalism and theocracy. The vote is appealing from a theatrical point of view, but it doesn't solve any of the problems of Iraq- in fact, it actually exacerbates many of them. That's just the way it is.