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To: LLCF who wrote (43008)	12/19/2005 10:37:28 AM
From: John Vosilla	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116555

The bigger question. The fact that since there have been no terrorist attacks here since 9/11 is that luck or brilliance? Bush administration has been atrocious but I give em credit for war on terror which is different from whatever the hell they are doing in liberating Iraq. Personally I feel we have more real and pressing needs in this country that deserves more attention from this administration.

To: LLCF who wrote (43008)	12/19/2005 10:53:18 PM
From: regli	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 116555

>>Which part is 'conveniently compliant'... the part where I think this is over the top: <We can just as well become a dictatorship right now.><< Yes, it is. The dangers inherent in unsupervised state control mechanisms are significant. The lack of independent supervision leads to misuse of power and the subversion of opponents and therefore subversion of the most elemental laws of a country. I don't know if you read the Goebbels speech at the end of my previous post but it demonstrates that even in 1940 the veneer of democracy in Germany was still alive even though de facto it had become a dictatorship. However, the appearances of democracy were still used to keep people compliant with the cause. In the U.S., unless restraint quickly and fervently by the electorate and congress, it might develop slightly differently but in a similar vein, just look at the recent Diebold controversy for a highly prospective avenue. rawstory.com A dictatorship does not have to be reflected in its most simple form, i.e. a single person in charge of the state apparatus. In fact, with today’s sophisticated manipulation techniques, it is much better to keep the veneer going because it keeps the general public in its illusion that everything is fine. Notice the Goebbels references to the opposition social democrats. >You think it's a basic fact that the US administration has made up that there are terrorist groups who are at war with the US... I don't.< It isn't quite as simple as that. Any country that has troops stationed in 144 countries is bound to have more or less consistent violent opposition. cato.org This is especially true if these troops are not answerable to local authorities. Note that Bin Laden's major problem initially was the U.S. bases in Saudi Arabia. I can tell you from personal experience that this stirred significant anger in the local population made hugely worse because these troops did not have to adhere to local laws and customs. If opposition of this kind justifies being at war at home then one shouldn't be surprised that as long as the U.S. harbors imperial ambitions we will always be at war. This is where the 'conveniently compliant' term enters the picture. Because the state of war then becomes a tool of the people in power to spread enough fear in the populace so that basic laws can be suspended potentially forever. Very rarely if ever has this lead to freedom and prosperity - to put it mildly.