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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: neolib who wrote (7816)	12/21/2005 3:30:25 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542009

Can you list the kinds of freedoms you think people give up by living in the city? And do you see some freedoms that might be given up by people who live in rural areas?

To: neolib who wrote (7816)	12/21/2005 4:10:48 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542009

You are pragmatic libertarians in that case. But IMO, its a rather rubbery definition of libertarian. To you does "libertarian" equal "rigid libertarian ideologue"? was anathema to Ayn Rand style libertarianism. Ayn Rand didn't like to be called libertarian. She thought of "Objectivism" as something different. But I just see it as one form of libertarianism. Either way whether you consider it actually something different (which I don't think most people do), or one form of libertarianism, you shouldn't confuse objectivism with all of libertarianism. Some libertarians (but not Rand) are libertarian entirely due to their opinion of pragmatic concerns. They believe that most of the time the libertarian vision will produce a better practical result. I would submit that the majority of that group are not rigid libertarian ideologues. If 95 times out of 100 they think less regulation and central control is the answer, there is still those 5 times to deal with. I am libertarian for both pragmatic and philosophical reasons, but I am not a rigid ideologue either. Tim

To: neolib who wrote (7816)	12/21/2005 4:13:46 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 542009

I thought it was the worst of all dirty words for her, yet both you and kholt seems to accept the notion without problems. It was. "Common good" is another of those loaded terms. It is associated with collectivism because collectivists design their society around the common good. I don't really accept the notion and I doubt that Tim does either, not in that context, not at all. That's common good by the front door. I believe, though, that, if left to their libertarian devices, communities will achieve common good through the back door. I wrote earlier about achieving a culture by result rather than by design. The net result of civilized people making individual decisions in their "enlightened best interests" will produce common good. Of course, you have to take that on trust in the libertarian paradigm. You don't get to try to control it as in collectivist, command-and-control systems. Freedom can be scary. Karen

To: neolib who wrote (7816)	12/21/2005 5:07:22 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 542009

” All the arrows of restriction keep coming back to the common good,…” A regard for common goodness is not restrictive, it is restorative. Woven into the paradoxes and ironies of our circumstance is awareness that any conduct based solely on the stratagem of material gain is endowed with benefits, which are balanced by, and occasionally outweighed by corruption. The principle of well being is a strand of purpose woven through the fabric of humanity. It exists with regard to interpreting the past. It exists with regard to attitudes and behavior in the present. It exists with regard to the promise of a future. If one establishes a view of life that holistically associates, a “regard for the well being of all,” as purposeful, one can define the value, direction, and attitudes that motivate behavior in this purposeful realm of well-being. The principle nature of regard for the well being provokes attitudes and action in support of well-being and attitudes and action in opposition to that which is harmful. The common good is a mutual regard for the well being of self and others. It is not a rigid dictate handed down by a social authority to control you. It is a notion that you control, by your free will, the choice of a beneficent path over the corrupt.