To: Lane3 who wrote (1836 ) 12/29/2005 11:04:08 AM From: carranza2 Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 2253 The problem with the entire conversation is whether anyone can accept that the natural world, as we understand it, can be the result of creative activity by something in the unnatural world, if such a world even exists which I seriously doubt. I think a bit of light can be thrown on the subject by looking at the history of religion. Many early humans worshipped the sun because to them it was the source of light, heat, and the moving source behind farming. If an eclipse happened, it was thought to be caused by supernatural events which were variously interpreted. Now, of course, we know that the sun is simply a star. There are dozens of examples, from the tree-worshipping Druids to cargo cults. The idea of a Mover as suggested by the ID proponents is simply the same thing as sun-worshipping but taken to a higher level, one in which science and logic can by definition play no part. As we become more and more scientifically sophisticated, this search for ultimate causality engendered by our boundless curiosity will increasingly be seen as frivolous and a waste of time. We will simply accept that the question cannot be answered because the realm of what can be learned by our senses borders on the infinite. And as we learn more, the supernatural will be displaced as an explanation. We will increasingly rely on physics, mathematics, bioscience, etc., for the explanation of the mechanics of our existence while at the same time we become increasingly amused at our forebears' search for the reason why we exist. If things play out as I think they will, we should enter a new world, one in which science will be the ultimate religion, one that will continually surprise us. Thanks to Muslim birth rate, their increasing fundamental radicalism, and to our destruction of the environment, however, this felicitous view is not necessarily one which is a given.