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Strategies & Market Trends : The Epic American Credit and Bond Bubble Laboratory -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: UncleBigs who wrote (49510)1/12/2006 12:03:45 AM
From: kris b  Respond to of 110194
 
When the US economy slows down.

Nice rebuttal.



To: UncleBigs who wrote (49510)1/12/2006 12:47:10 AM
From: TimbaBear  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 110194
 
...Fear that the FCB's start to indiscriminately dump dollars and fear that the Fed will use the printing press. Let's think through this and connect all the dots.

First, you are the one creating the strawman of first there will be indiscriminate FCB selling. You are wrong to create that strawman and to portray it as my position. What I had said was that there may eventually be indiscriminate FCB selling of USD and bonds but first there is the drying up of demand for buying our debt and then the using of stores of USD to purchase tangibles like oil reserves, gold, etc.

When risk aversion takes hold, domestic demand for safe income in the form of U.S. Treasury debt will skyrocket.

This has been your assertion here several times lately. Prove it. I don't buy it. There may be some small increase in domestic demand, but nowhere near enough to offset FCB buying. You are creating a possible scenario and vesting it with all the strength you can but that's pretty tenuous without facts to back it up. We have a negative savings rate and paying down debt isn't buying Treasuries.

All currencies are fiat and ultimately a currency's value is it's purchasing power. If asset values are declining, the purchasing power of the dollar is rising.

Who says asset values are declining? Which assets? Why would the USD rise when there is no fiscal discipline, rising obligations and declining tax revenues?

It in the longer run, America is healthier if we reduce our dependence on foreign capital to fund our deficits.

That's true enough, but we're not going to do it. The FCBs are going to stop financing the beast, they are going to stop providing junk to the junkie. They may impose the discipline of withdrawal, but I suspect it won't be smoothly done, we're too stubbornly committed to fiscal recklessness for that.

We can manage through an environment of a weakening economy and a credit contraction without a panic dumping of dollars by the FCB's.

Keep repeating that to yourself, it may offer some solace in whatever reality you got it from, but the world I've seen has seen panic selling of every major currency where the country let their fiscal situation get out of control. By many measures this country has gone much further down that road than some whose currencies have blown up. But if you find peace of mind in the notion that panic dumping of USD can never happen, I envy you.

There is no incentive for the FCB's to ensue in a panic wholesale dumping of US dollar debt

By that reasoning, there would never have been panic selling in the history of economics. But there has been. There have been many runs on banks, panic selling of debt, panic sellings of currencies galore. In every situation there was the same kind of rationale: "But if you panic, you won't get as much for your holdings!" Yet panic still ensued. It can happen. We've gotten ourselves into a classic situation where it is a more ripe thing than we have faced in many decades.

How are deflationary tendencies overwhelmed by higher interest rates? Higher interest rates would accelerate the deflation.

You missed the point again. The hyperinflation will be a currency related issue, not a consumption based issue.

It may very well be that Asia fares the inevitable credit bust better than the U.S. How does that bolster your hyperinflation argument?

There may not be as much incentive to save the US economy as once there was. Place the lion's share of the current holdings of USD and debt into oil reserves, commodities, infrastructure, gold, buying military equipment from the US, sell some at a loss and then let the cards fall where they may. USDs flood the market from all the purchases of the above and Asia trades among itself and Europe while American drowns in debt.

You say connect the dots.......if US savings were capable of replacing FCB buying, why isn't there any sign of it now? The major indices were flat for the year, and Treasuries would have outperformed them. It's your construct dude, but that don't make it real.

Timba