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Strategies & Market Trends : The Residential Real Estate Crash Index -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: GraceZ who wrote (47172)1/17/2006 4:28:38 AM
From: shadesRead Replies (2) | Respond to of 306849
 
What other half are you talking about?

The agricultural half. The base of the food growing pyramid that make wegmans ultimately possible.

The ones not as privaledged as you to be near a wegmans or even know about them they are so deprived.

I'm married to a drywall hanger.

Another housing related worker! My god - does the insanity never end? hehe

I was born to two parents who never made it past the eighth grade,

My dad had 16 years of education - he went to the 8th grade twice then dropped out. He would always say 8+8 is 16 right? hehe

my mother was a factory worker and my father worked on TVs for a living.

Factory work goes overseas now, and asian tv's are so cheap they have become a disposable item - why work on them now?

My first job was working as a domestic and I moved up to waitress, then photo lab tech.

That dirty jobs show - is no where near as nice and clean as the jobs you have held. Dirty, smelly jobs working in pigshit and pigeonshit - come on - you would not equate DIRTY jobs to the ones you worked eh? - hehe. Some guy on mishs thread posted a picture of the lower caste in india cleaning out sewers - he would view your lowest job as the greatest work in the world probably - hehe.

oit.org

Prakash, sewage worker in Hyderabad, works in the sewer without any protection (no gloves, no suit, no boots). He uses his hands and feet to scrape and clean out the sewage pipes.

Wegmans, while being a sight to behold, isn't any more expensive than your Safeway or Giant or Winn Dixie.

That you would say we are a richer society in aggregate because a few of us can go shop as a family at wegmans makes no sense to me Grace. That seems very narrow minded to me and I know you are more open than that. More wealth and less freedom seems to make society poorer to me.

If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. —Samuel Adams

I stopped in guadalajara mexico about 2 years ago Grace - they had a mall there - amazing - put to shame everything I saw in west palm beach and most of the USA for that matter - but to say that made the society in aggregate richer would be very foolish - for once you got a few miles away from that mall - people were living in destitution and poverty in mud shacks.

Go here for nice shopping:

La Gran Plaza...Upscale shops - Cinemas - Restaurants Av. Vallarta 3959 3122-3004
Plaza del Sol...Shops - Cinemas - Food Court

allaboutguadalajara.com

Guadalajara is the undisputed shopping capital of México. Modern malls, some very specialized, are located throughout the city. Tlaquepaque and, on a smaller scale, Tonalá are located within the city limits of Guadalajara and offer a shopping experience that is considered by many to be unmatched in the world. The downtown area is also home to the very interesting "Mercado Libertad", located at the eastern end of the Centro Histórico section of downtown. This market is said to be the largest "under roof" market in México. If you don't look around; how will you know that you didn't miss that one very special item, without which you could never be happy. (materialism at its finest - hehe)

allaboutguadalajara.com

Tlaquepaque is one of those places that shoppers dream of. This Guadalajara suburb is a "must" on any vacationers agenda. I know people who have flown halfway around the world just to shop in Tlaquepaque. The main shopping area has been closed off to traffic so that you can stroll and shop at a leisurely pace. Specialty shops are everywhere you look.

It is just a fabulous store with every imaginable type of food from the low brow ham hock to high brow range fed beef.

Fantastic - I meet a lot of yankees down here in fla and they all seem so narrow minded to me - they dont understand that everyone did not have the privaledged blue collar life they had in NY.

Your Harvard gal cherry pics her data.

Well she is selling books - hehe.

It's an old rant that is continually brought up to show how the poor aren't doing as well as the rich. Never do they make any adjustment for how people move from one income group to another through life,

Perhaps - but I see many of my peers driving old beatup used cars, if driving at all, FORCED to work 2 jobs to make ends meet and they all complain how their parents on one income had shiny new cars. I read how pensions are going the way of the dodo bird and wonder when steve forbes tells me I should be happy for this change in america if he is nutso.

never do they show how much everyone's standard of living has risen unrelentingly over time.

My rich millionaire friend always went to the nice shopping districts in mexico - he commented to me how home depot and such were popping up all over down there - I asked him when was the last time he took a local bus or donkey out into the poor working communities to see how the other half lived - he said what for? I guess we will just disagree that everyone's standard of living has risen. You see things from your perspective near wegmans - I try to see them from the poor pig farmer slopping hogs in south ga 40 miles outside of town.

I'm betting she never adjusted for the unpaid labor that all woman had to put in at home before they entered into the work force en mass?

See this is another fundamental viewpoint you and I probably differ on - my granny said she LIKED staying at home raising kids - she could not value that in terms of unpaid labor - she was heartbroken when she had to leave them and go to work and let the eldest kid babysit the rest - like this story:

hotboards.com

'My heart broke; my heart broke,' said Ms. Gallardo, who crumbled as she recounted her decision to leave her girls with her sister and make the uncertain journey across the border. 'But I had to give them a better life. I told them I would go and work, and we could buy a small plot of land and build a little house and have a dog.'

She does not WANT to leave her kids and work - but she feels she has no choice. She is FORCED - being forced is not freedom - and the less freedom we have - the poorer we are - no matter any other riches.

Aside from that, between myself and my husband, we have a lot of women in our family. He has seven sisters, I have four. Of all those women I'm the only one who has worked consistently throughout adulthood. Our sisters all took time off to raise kids and lived on one income for a time.

The data I read said this is really not an option for many families - they cant afford to lose that second income for any appreciable amount of time. I look at my peers with children and I dont see how they could live "middle class" without 2 incomes. Several of my peers - one of the 2 income earners has to work 2 jobs.

They went back to work when the kids were older because they were bored or they got divorced. With us, our incomes are essentially equal so we live on one and invest the other.

harvard girls data does not bear this out.

This is what has given us a much higher standard of living than those people who max out their spending, who always turn up in these articles about how hard it is to be middle class in America. I don't care what you make, I can find someone who manages to live on half that amount.

Yes, up above I showed you a picture of a guy "living" scraping feces with his bare hands in raw sewage - hell some of them might even be HAPPY doing it - that is gods plan for them - if that is all they have ever known and never walked into a wegmans - hehe. He does seem to have a smile on his face while he scrapes the feces?

You let me spend three hours analyzing their budgets, I'd find where they are wasting money.

Well the data in the article says there is just not much money left at the end of month. I am with you though grace, my redneck buddies gave up sonnys BBQ rib dinners on saturday and eat mcdonalds 1 dollar menu now or ramen. No more movie theater on fri night - they got a library card and check out DVD's now much cheaper. hehe Only the RICH can afford movie theaters now in that city!

A rich guy told me when I was fairly young that if I lived on half my income and invested the other half wisely that my investments would soon grow faster than my ability to grow my income and he was correct.

That sounds like that kiyosaki guy - hehe. Harvard girl doesnt think we can live on half our income and maintain the basics.

Here's a link to a pretty good survey on what people actually live on:

bls.gov;

I read it Grace - but it comes from red tape b'crats and I distrust them fundamentally and many here on SI and many other economic types elsewhere say the numbers are fudged. Having worked in a large organization myself - lies and damn lies are status quo.

However they do say this - and this seems to backup what I see the rednecks in ga doing - less nice meals - more sucky ones.

The drop in spending on food away from home in
2003 was not statistically significant, but it was the first time since 1991 that spending on that component decreased from
the previous year.

Differences among the regions in changes in spending on
food away from home were more pronounced, especially in
the South (–8.3 percent)


I guess since the rednecks have to have thier 6 pack more than red lobster - they are spending more on alcohol than eating out. Good times or bad - always gonna have a bud. Alcohol was one component that went up both years.

As table 1 shows - those lower quintiles just cant eat out like their parents used too - food away from home has the greatest discrepancy between rich and poor. Less sonnys BBQ - more ramen noodles and michelob. That is not getting richer eh?

Most of the difference between rich and poor seems to be 2 to 3x greater expenditure.

I think this is the greatest discrepancy however:

Personal insurance and pensions 433poor 12,615rich

Almost a 30x difference!

Pensions and Social Security 308poor 11,637rich

Almost a 38x difference! hehe

But steve forbes convince me pensions are bad and we need to scrap those failed ideaologies.

Table 7 - healthcare costs - one earner versus 2
2,573 2,626

Now how is that fair grace - your divorced sisters have to pay almost as much as when 2 people were being insured! Most of the other stats are not so out of whack between 1 and 2 earners.

Table8 City slickers only 52% homeowners but 80% of my redneck buds own thier home.

Education - city slickers smart - rural friends dumb:
718 911 348rural

Table9 - black man just cant afford to eat out it seems.
2,302 2,983 1,343

Or drink as much wine:
425 308 169

But he pays MORE for utilities and fuel - go figure - haha!:
2,808white 2,536asian 2,910black

Table10 - blacks for 2.6 people spend more than latino for 3.3 people on utilities - haste makes waste - they better slow down - pedro coming for them with his higher birth rates!

Table11 - south has double the units as NE - but the biggest discrepancy - education - yanks spend more than rednecks by 2x.

Table12 - gpowell points out low productive jobs - thier ranks should swell - while high productive decrease: However it seems managers and paper pushers far outnumber the low service - if you can trust those number - I know a lot of bumbs and mexicans that get paid under the table.

Regarding that table - it is based in US dollars - an inflationary thing according to many - something that silently robs you of wealth. Some posit to base such tables in terms of gold or swiss francs or oil - not inflationary dollars. Its like all the hooplah on the dow hitting 11K on CNBC this past month - well dow 11K in 2006 is not the same as dow 11k of 2000 - the money doesn't go as far today as it did back then - but making the citizenry think in terms of "dollars" has been an effective political tool for eons.

BTW if you look at the data in income quintiles, my husband and I are on the low end of the fifth for income but our household spending is between the second and third.

So you guys make 77K before taxes - and spend around 20K - live near wegmans and therefore think all of america is rich looking at life through your narrow experience - why am I not surprised?

My redneck friend can't buy the medicine for the momma he loves very much - I suppose he will die from a heart attack from that stress - why cant he be happy like you and hubby at how rich he is? Why do all those people living in paradise in hawaii suck down that meth and ice in suicidal abandon - what dont they understand abou their good rich life that you do? How are they so miserable and you so happy Grace?