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Politics : Israel to U.S. : Now Deal with Syria and Iran -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: sea_urchin who wrote (9823)1/18/2006 9:20:42 PM
From: Jamey  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 22250
 
"It is true, nevertheless. People adopt their position in the argument as result of the circumstances they find themselves in. In other words, their subjectivity. For example, I doubt you would hear someone living in extreme poverty extol the virtues of capitalism and, likewise, someone who is very wealthy promoting the joys of socialist redistribution of wealth (unless he was a politician, of course). I doubt you would hear a Palestinian extol the virtues of the State of Israel or an evangelist promoting Islam. Indeed, I maintain that people argue from the position of their own self-interest and not because of some abstract intellectualisation and one is right to assume this is so unless one has proof to the contrary."

I believe that could be postulized as a logical statement that holds as true in any circumstances. Bravo to Searle for stating it.

Santiago



To: sea_urchin who wrote (9823)1/19/2006 4:28:44 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 22250
 
Re: I strongly suspect that because of your persistent anti-white feeling...

Bis repetita placent... Of course, for your ploy to be successful, you conveniently overlook my pro-French sympathies. Remember, Searle, the following email I've sent to arabnews.com:

Message 20285775

Then there is the following SI thread:

Subject 53699

Every now and then, I feel it my duty to dot the i's and cross the t's of Nikole Wollerstein, its resident, anti-French Judeofascist....(**) Now, Searle, don't tell me you categorize the French as non-white?!??!?

Re: ...you deviously seek to debunk and defuse my (geo)political and social critiques by psychologizing them as racist lunacies spawned by a twisted mind.

That's bullshit. I have never said so so don't put words in my mouth.


I didn't "put words in your mouth", I merely put a name on your captious argumentation: you psychologize my opinion by branding me an "anti-white racist". Of course, my semantic debunking of your reasoning doesn't fit in with your racist mindset... Indeed, you are like a Jesus freak from the Bible Belt who would find it impossible to debate with an atheist or a polytheist on matters of faith, mores or geology because the atheist/polytheist's standpoint lies beyond the biblical frame of reference --hence this Manichean statement of yours:

...I doubt you would hear someone living in extreme poverty extol the virtues of capitalism and, likewise, someone who is very wealthy promoting the joys of socialist redistribution of wealth (unless he was a politician, of course). I doubt you would hear a Palestinian extol the virtues of the State of Israel or an evangelist promoting Islam...

...or a white person taking up the cause of Africans? Or Muslim spouses extolling the virtues of mixed marriages (with non Muslims)? Actually, your last paragraph is wrong altogether:

...I doubt you would hear someone living in extreme poverty extol the virtues of capitalism...

WRONG: Pollsters have shown that the bulk of the far-right constituency in Europe is made up of blue-collars, jobless, and poor... Most of them used to vote Communist in the past but today they wholeheartedly support the pro-business, libertarian agenda of the Front National, Vlaams Belang, etc. Ditto for the US where political pundits have routinely pointed to the "ironic" voting pattern of the US's white underclass who keeps voting GOP AGAINST its own economic self-interest! The reason being that the social/religious conservatism of white Americans is stronger than their purely economical awareness....

...likewise, someone who is very wealthy promoting the joys of socialist redistribution of wealth (unless he was a politician, of course).

WRONG again: George Soros, Ted Turner (who bankrolled the UN with the money he got from the TimeWarner/CNN merger), and Bill Gates (thru his charities) are all big redistributors of wealth, yet none is a politician....

...I doubt you would hear a Palestinian extol the virtues of the State of Israel...

WRONG. Of course, "extol" may be too strong a word but there certainly are Palestinians supporting the existence of a Jewish state peacefully and alongside a Palestinian one.

Like it or not, cross-pollination and bridge building are genuine, instrumental features of human life, be it in politics, in sociology, in economics,....

Gus



To: sea_urchin who wrote (9823)1/20/2006 6:37:07 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 22250
 
Re: As I have mentioned repeatedly, my family and I are being discriminated against by anti-white legislation enacted by the ANC government allegedly in reaction to crimes committed by people who I, too, regard with contempt, namely the Afrikaner Nationalist government. ... I can assure you that if you were in my shoes, you would feel the same way.

Y'know, Searle, you almost shamed me! And I thought I was aware of all of Africa's miseries!! Damfool that I was! But now, thanks to your personal, poignant, eye-opening testimony, I know that, in addition to the bane of locust swarms that ravage the crops of Saharan countries (Morocco, Mali, Niger,...), the famines that plague the Horn of Africa (Ethiopia, Somalia, Sudan), the tropical diseases and warfare that cripple Central Africa (Congo, Angola, Rwanda,...), there is the PLIGHT OF THE SENNETT FAMILY in racist South Africa! Indeed, the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse....

Now allow me to cast a ray of hope upon your dire straits: China! As the article below shows, your best move might be a new life in Shanghai:

China's lure for young professionals
By George Zhibin Gu

SHENZHEN
- Regardless of how one feels about globalization, it has unquestionably led to an unprecedented level of international interaction around the globe, as national economies become increasingly interwoven. And as the world's biggest developing market, China has become a top destination for foreigners to work and live: expatriates in China now number in the hundreds of thousands.

These latter-day Marco Polos come from anywhere and everywhere. They generally value their China experiences highly: being in a rapidly developing society such as China can often expand their horizons in many ways. Equally significant, they act as bridges between China and the world. At the same time, the Chinese public is, by and large, delighted to have them here. The Chinese people are well aware that China has departed firmly from its past isolation and entered a new era, and the expatriate presence shows that China has taken a giant step in joining the global community. Overall, China's foreign workers are a great blessing both for China and for the world. The change from 20 years ago has been dramatic.

From here, there and everywhere

It is becoming easier and easier to find foreign-run firms in Chinese cities. One such case is the import-export business of Ibrahim Othman, a Syrian consumer products merchant. A veteran China player, he has maintained an office in Shenzhen, Guangdong province, for several years. His business model is straightforward: he buys made-in-China products and ships them back to the Middle East. To Othman, Chinese products are cheap and quality is fast-improving. He said China has "a fast-growing market in [the] Middle East" and "selling Chinese products has better profit margins" than selling other products.

Other foreign nationals are experienced professionals. One of these is Sam Woollard, a native of Cambridge, England. Previously he worked as a marketing and media specialist for British Airways and several other companies in Europe and Australia. Nearly two years ago, he landed in Shanghai. Now he works as publications manager for the German Chamber of Commerce in Shanghai. He finds his new environment "stimulating and fun ... filled with daily interactions with local Chinese ... [I] especially enjoy chatting with my 80-year-old Chinese neighbor."

There is also a large contingent of entrepreneurs, who have found plenty of work to do in fast-changing China. Steve Kuhn, from the US state of Minnesota, exemplifies this group. After graduating from Harvard, he worked as a bond trader for Goldman Sachs for many years. Beginning one year ago, he started new ventures of his own in Beijing, while remaining a consultant to Goldman Sachs. He has given lectures at Peking University and Tsinghua University, two top Chinese schools, on his investment knowledge. "These Chinese students are very bright and I had a great time," he said.

Another Kuhn project is a new website called BeijingLives.com. This website is somewhat like a Yellow Pages for the city; local businesses and organizations can freely announce their events there. It goes further by providing general news coverage and analysis on China. He wants to bring the best possible information on China back to Americans: "Americans need to get [accurate] information about what is happening inside China."

Kuhn's team members come from Canada, the US, Australia and China. Nicknamed "can do" by his friends, Kuhn has found Beijing a perfect place for his ambitions. In particular, he attaches a long-term perspective to his website: "In 50 years, when people look at our archives, they will see how we really lived in Beijing back then."

Another business consultant is Melbourne native Les Lothringer, already in China for 20 years. Lothringer has traveled to more Chinese cities than most Chinese, and now divides his time among Australia, China and the rest of Asia.

Culture shocks

This writer can well remember his culture shock after moving to the United States in 1981 - the independent lifestyle of Americans, the absolute need for a car, the way even 80-year-olds often need to drive to get groceries. Visiting the UK was the same: the British treated afternoon tea like a religious ceremony, repeating everything the same way at the tea-table every afternoon. But culture shock is a double-edged sword. What shocks foreign nationals about living in China?

Thomas Podvin, a Frenchman now working as a writer and editor for a US magazine based in Shanghai, has been surprised by the openness of the Chinese around him. He noted: "Chinese people can be more open-minded than what we think, especially the older generation [who were] said to be conservative. They are warm-hearted and also can show their feeling easily. They can cry for happiness or sadness without any shame."
[...]

atimes.com

The tagline sums it up: "They can cry for happiness or sadness without any shame!" As I said, you won't feel alienated among 1.3 billion shameless crybabies, will you?

Gus