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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (181222)	2/5/2006 11:44:33 PM
From: 2MAR$	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

And you didn't respond to my suggestion that Turkey could be used as a template for trying to help guide Iraq into a modern parliamentary system of representation for the people of Iraq . We know that atrocities were commited there , millions have died in recent wars between Iran and Iraq ...and yet the world should stand around and do nothing . And the invasion of Kuwait was just a fluke ....alrighty then. *Just like the genocides in S Sudan....but do nothing is your answer .

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (181222)	2/6/2006 1:20:31 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

I asked "what is it that you've seen or read that makes you think that there is any REAL possibility that some form of beneficial democracy could exist in Iraq? Because we have simple difference of opinion. I don't believe it's possible to impose democracy, only unleash it. We have removed the tyrannical chains that prevent it from flourishing and evolving. Because I believe democracy is a necessary condition for a civilized society. What you're REALLY asking is whether I've seen tyrannical forces that, through violence and intimidation, could overwhelm the democratic desire of the people and cause them to settle for something other than democracy. And yes.. there are any number of forces that, if not interdicted and neutralized/pacified, could cause the Iraqi people to choose something other than democractic government. We have terror being perpetrated upon innocent individuals by Islamo-Fascists and FRE insurgents who want to restore their previous place of power. We have Shi'ite fanatics acting as proxies for Iranian hardline clerics... Yeah... there are a lot of obstacles to fully unleashing democracy within Iraq. What makes you think, after all you've seen, that we have the POWER to choose for them? Who's choosing for them? They are choosing for themselves. The previous government was the one who did the choosing for the people. Recall that Saddam was "elected" with nearly 100% approval, right?? THAT'S what you're referring to... All we've done is attempt to prevent anyone from using violence and intimidation to advance their interests over those of other Iraqis. All we should be truly concerned about it insuring that the democratic system is preserved no matter who is elected. Whoever is elected must stand for re-election in the same free and fair elections that brought them to office in the first place. Cause with 2,200 bodies coming home to America I really think you ought to be able to justify your rabid support for the Bush Administration's continued armed intervention in the nation of Iraq. Ed I guess you're more concerned with the 2,200 servicemen who have died performing their duties, and TOTALLY FORGET the 3,000 innocent people who died on 9/11. I guess you need to see even more carnage inflicted on our country then before you finally accept the fact that we're involved in a war with Al Qai'da and Islamo-Fascism. And we need to fight them wherever they are, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Somalia, Yemen.. and if necessary, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan... It's not my fault that Al Qai'da invaded Iraq and joined forces with the Ba'thists and Sunnis. They are there and they will remain there if we opt to cut and run... And while you're counting bodies, why not start countying the number of dead Iraqis who have been slained by our enemy, Al Qai'da.. Or maybe you don't believe that Al Qai'da is our enemy... Maybe you want to take Zawahiri and Bin Laden up on that "truce", eh?? Hawk