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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: 2MAR$ who wrote (181230)	2/6/2006 9:14:29 AM
From: Sam	Respond to of 281500

And you are way off on the subject of the Iran Iraq war, almost 2 million died in that you know , that really were victims of their respective indoctrination and tyrant leaders , not because of the American will. We were not the ones pulling the triggers in that massacre of human life . Yes, but our policy was to encourage the continuation of that war. We didn't "pull triggers," as you say, but we, so to speak, supplied the triggers. We supplied both sides with weapons and parts and, when it looked like Iran might get the upper hand, supplied Iraq with intelligence. We certainly didn't exercise any leadership to try to end the war, we thought we were so clever by half--not only with respect to that particular war, but, you may recall, Iran was key to the IranContra affair, the "I know in my heart we didn't negotiate with terrorists and supply them with arms, but the facts suggest otherwise" affair. As for their being no loss of life in Turkey during its evolution , how sadly misinformed you are. And Turkey is a template for what might be achieved and promoted in Iraq and throughout much of the other immature Islamic world . Yes, but with the dissolution of the Ottoman Empre, the violence and civil war in Turkey following WWI was inevitable. But their civil war wasn't decided by foreign powers. And as for Turkey being a template for other middle eastern countries--that would be nice, but, unhappily, it isn't in the cards. Aside from the fact that Turkey isn't an Arab country, Kemal/Ataturk created by fiat a rigid separation of religion and state, something that few if any Arab countries will do. Certainly they won't do it democratically (not even turkey did it democratically)--if the majority gets a vote in most Arab countries and they actually vote, they would not support separation of religion and state. Indeed, there are many Americans who basically don't support it either, Bill of Rights notwithstanding. The example of Turkey highlights the contradiction in their Iraq policy that the Bush administration never faced--on the one hand they claim to want "democracy", but on the other hand, if they actually get democracy in the sense of "majority rules" (and, after all, they themselves claimed a "mandate" with the barest of majorities, and pretend that they don't have to pay attention to anyone else in their governing), the very institutions that most of the educated people in this country and the West generally associate with the term "democracy" won't be honored.