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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (181355)	2/7/2006 5:37:13 PM
From: steve dietrich	Respond to of 281500

Still only 1 batallion (Iraqi) able to operate indendently, will take decades to rebuild infrastructure, war costs will be .5 tril. by next year. We're going to be there a very long time.http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060207/pl_nm/iraq_usa_rumsfeld_dc

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (181355)	2/7/2006 6:46:11 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Respond to of 281500

Once again your thought processes are too shallow. From someone who's questioning whether or not we have the right to "force" democracy upon anyone, I'll take that as a compliment. What's nonsensical is your failure to recognize that there is a constant struggle for power in all societies and that the struggle never ends. Those with the greatest will and resources WITHIN the society will rule. NO SHT!! What an amazing grasp of the obvious you have... What do you think a totalitarian system is? It's one group of powerful individuals who have dominated, THROUGH FEAR, VIOLENCE, AND INTIMIDATION, to MAKE people adher to THEIR RULE(S), with little accountability to the rest of the population. It's the "top dog" mentality where the country is ruled by an "Alpha Male" (or even female) for their own benefit. Which is WHY it is so important to limit the power of these authoritarian power elite and make them accountable to the overall citizenry via a democratic electoral system. Have you forgotten the history of the US? Who had the right to vote in the US upon it's founding? Women? Black slaves? No... it was a government operated by the landed gentry, where white men without property were not even given a vote. And there were a number of rebellions that occurred as well, and a major civil war that is STILL the bloodiest war we've ever fought, to contend with. So one could have asked whether Colonial Americans were "fit" to govern themselves at anytime until after the Civil War, couldn't they? Doesn't sound like OUR first 50 years were very "benign", so here you are, after only three years in Iraq trying to figure out when everyone is going to be "lovey-dovey" and smoking the peace Hooka.. The one advantage the US founders had was that there already existed a system of state colonial governments that transitioned into their present state governmental form. Thus, it was a matter of each state deciding how much of their internal power they were willing to cede to a Federal constitution. Whereas, the Iraqis were left with a "power vacuum" where these regional governments and powerbases have to be recreated. And you know something.. that's going to include violence because they perceive the stakes as being very high. The level of distrust between ethnicities and religious factions is high and it will take years for them to figure out that they have some very strong enemies on their borders and that the madness has to stop. What WE cannot do is fight that battle for them and prevail against the others struggling for power in their own country,* Of course we can't. But we can stick around to assist them until they build a sufficient strong police and military force so that the elected government can maintain security. Of course, it might turn out that we've trained and armed both sides of an eventual civil war, but that will be their decision to make. All they have to do is ask us to leave. I'll be more than happy to see US troops pack up and come home... But it must be the decision of the Iraqi government as to whether they still require the presence outside military forces to back them up against their enemies, foreign and domestic. Hawk