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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Fred Gohlke who wrote (11218)	2/8/2006 5:13:21 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541595

I have stated that political parties are conduits of corruption and that the corruption is perpetuated because political parties control the political process, including candidate selection. I have stated that, if we have the will, we have the means to devise a better system, and I'm trying to find out how others think that better system could be constructed. You may find citing subtle differences in the definition of corruption a worthwhile endeavor, but in terms of defining a better political system, it's a digression. I don't think it is a digression because any system will have candidates and candidates can be just as corrupt as parties. I do think that defining exactly what we mean by corruption might be a good idea but that was not what I as doing in the statement you quoted and replied to. re: "Well maybe not quite assuming that there is no possible method of selecting representatives that doesn't involve campaigning but that there is no good democratic way to select representatives that doesn't involve campaigning." I don't agree. What is is not necessarily what must be. Until someone proposes a different method, we have no way of determining whether it is or is not a "good democratic way to select representatives". I think that there is no way to select representatives on a national or large state level that doesn't involve either campaigning or non-democratic method of selection or maybe a democratic selection but an extremely ignorant electorate (much more so than or electorate is currently). I am willing to evaluate any proposed method with an open mind but no one has proposed to me even a hint of an outline of any method that would fit those criteria. re: "Receiving a political contribution doesn't necessarily make you beholden to anyone." That's a quibble. Not at all. If I was an elected representative I would have no problem receiving a large political contribution and then voting for what I think is right/just/constitutional, even if the contributor doesn't support it. re: Public Finance If you presented this as a method we should consider, you undermined the concept more than you promoted it. Since I believe that campaigning is a practical necessity I examined an alternative that would reduce the possible corruption from campaign contributions. I do think it could do that in theory but in practice I think it would be likely to cause more problems than it resolves. This may be the central problem. I've stated, several times, that I'm seeking a better way to select representatives. If you feel the current method is adequate, there's nothing for us to discuss. If you, too, think we could do better, please help us find a way to accomplish it. I believe the current method is acceptable even though it is not perfectly ideal. I am open to ideas for improvement, and I think we might be able to get some improvement at the margin, but I don't see any changes leading to revolutionary improvement without also leading to many problems. "If your asking for a utopian political vision from me, the changes that such a vision would entail would not primarily be ones of reducing corruption, and would not deal with issues like the role of the parties and campaign contributions." That's a definitive answer. If, in the future, you have anything productive to add to the search for improvement, it will be welcome. Well if you want something like my utopian vision I could provide it, but I'm not actually sure how well it would work either. Overall I think my ideas could work if they were implemented but I have some major doubts about them being implemented and even if they ever were I have major doubts about the durability of the implementation. If the ideas don't get durable support than the changes based on the ideas won't last. We would have some new system which might be like what we have now or might be something else that I wouldn't consider an improvement over what we have now. Since my ideas have little to do with the ideas your are proposing, or the problems that you are trying to deal with they aren't strictly relevant to this issue, but if you want to change the subject, or have a parallel conversation on a different topic than just ask. Tim