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Politics : Just the Facts, Ma'am: A Compendium of Liberal Fiction -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: TimF who wrote (45155)	2/10/2006 9:07:25 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 90947

"Yup. But that's hardly surprising or unusual. Its not like you go around saying you are wrong all the time." It is unnecessary to personalize this, Tim. You misinterpreted my comment. It was about your statement that "we the people" are wrong. I said: "According to "we the people" you DO have such a debt to society." You responded: "If that is true, and I don't really agree that it is, than "we the people" are wrong about this." I commented: "Well, that would make you right, wouldn't it??" So when I suggested that your assertion that the democratic process of the people (which is under the authority of your Constitution) was a claim to being right, I clearly intended your claim to being right to reflect disagreement with your fellow citizens who make United States laws. It had nothing to do with me. "Depends on what you mean by above the law. I am subject penalties if I violate the law. In that sense I am not above the law" What I mean is simply this: that the belief that you can cherry pick what laws you have a responsibility or onus to obey while disregarding the rest ("I do not agree that I have any onus to obey whatever legislation congress or my state legislature passes. I also don't agree with the idea that I have a moral obligation to follow every regulation") is an antisocial attitude and one that embraces the idea of being above the law, to wit--not feeling any onus to subject yourself to the rules and regulations that others must follow, nor feeling any moral obligation to follow the regulations that have been enacted by democratic process under the Constitution. "Neither the constitution nor statue law nor judicial decisions, nor the political process is infallible or inherently just. We have never disagreed that laws may be imperfect as flowing from human needs and judgments, so let us not obscure what we do disagree on... "but all that is needed is one extreme case to show that what is law is not necessarily what is right" We have both said repeatedly that the law is not set in stone but is modified by time, circumstance, values, and custom. However, your Nazi analogy is irrelevant to the issue. An analogy may sometimes make a good illustration, but in and of itself it makes no argument whatsoever. In this case, Nazi Germany has absolutely nothing to do with our discussion. Nazi Germany did not grants equal rights and freedoms to people, nor did it properly apply either direct or representative democracy. To violate laws in a society where the laws have no basis in individual rights and freedoms in incomparable to the violation of laws where citizens form the Government based on the soundest set of principles which humankind has yet put together for civil coexistence. "but no government will ever be perfect. On a relative basis I think the US does a great job, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be much better." Absolutely no disagreement there. Why must I keep saying so? "Not accepting the idea that breaking the law is automatically an attack against society does not require you to break any law" Nobody claimed otherwise. But you DID claim that you did not feel bound to obey the law ("I do not agree that I have any onus to obey whatever legislation congress or my state legislature passes"). Now, we can discuss whether or not there is any merit to your position, but first it would be helpful if you disavowed the pretense that you did not make the statement.