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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: TimF who wrote (12344)	2/16/2006 6:02:53 PM
From: Dale Baker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 543732

One of the constant fallacies on this thread is, "Well they did it too/worse!" While the proposition may be true it is virtually irrelevant in understanding the import and impact of the original problem. At best it's a lame kind of excuse or justification, a spin for perpetrators. But it offers no real comfort or enticement to support for the victims of the original offense.

To: TimF who wrote (12344)	2/16/2006 6:05:15 PM
From: KonKilo	Respond to of 543732

The insurgents are doing a lot more damage to ordinary Iraqis than we are. Go back and read my post again. I allowed for sectarian hatreds that we do not have here at this time. (Although we did have them here about 140 years ago and they could easily be reignited today by all the eliminationist hate speech between Right and Left, but that's another topic for another day.)

To: TimF who wrote (12344)	2/16/2006 6:09:53 PM
From: thames_sider	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 543732

The insurgents are doing a lot more damage to ordinary Iraqis than we are. Mainly true. Especially the actions of saboteurs and the like, although these aren't so seen, and these may prove to be counter-productive in the longer run if continued (for years). Plus of course the attacks on fledgling law enforcement. But, you see, that's how a resistance movement works. They don't tend to take the blame, and even if they do their actions don't tend to inspire people to become police o government workers as revenge - those after revenge would tend to have a different mindset and blame the 'ultimate' cause, i.e. the occupiers. We have hardly been flawless examples of moral perfection in Iraq but the actions you describe (other than the stray bomb) are more likely to be actions of our opponents. Nevertheless, if you go in shouting that you're the good guys, come to liberate, rebuild and improve, you do far more damage to your own cause by bombing weddings, imprisoning without trial, beating and torturing prisoners (especially if proud pictures are taken), shooting up civilian cars, etc. "Yes, but we're still better than Saddam" is not a rallying cry. We bloody well should be! It isn't a persuasive argument especially if it implies he's our standard for measurement. We have to be better than our opponents, far better, because we're the invaders and we're starting with that huge handicap. No, it's not very fair. But the fact is, Saddam never faced the kind of resistance movements that we're facing. He might have done, perhaps, and that could have been a better way to depose him...?