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Politics : I Will Continue to Continue, to Pretend.... -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Sully- who wrote (18377)3/1/2006 11:40:55 PM
From: Sully-  Respond to of 35834
 
    Never, ever, have I received from Zogby any poll result, 
let alone the full report. Zogby wants to make sure that
this poll was trumpeted far and wide. His bias in 2004
is now on full display in 2006 without any pretense of
impartiality.

Zogby impartial? Not in my mailbox

By: kingronjo
RedState.org

<SNIP>
I have been a member of Zogby's polling panel for several years now.
Usually when I get the request marc@mail2.zogby.com it is only to take part in one of the surveys. Today to my surprise was different.

In the message area was the title "Zogby: US troops in Iraq: 72% say end the war." I opened it up and was shocked to see this survey results.

Here is the linked page: zogby.com

Nothing like these results have ever been talked about by anyone, including the anti-war talking heads. But in the third paragraph was the answer to how these numbers came about: the sponsor--Le Moyne College's Center for Peace and Global Studies.

The Center for Peace is another far left outfit that blames America for anything and everything. For example, it is the proud sponsor of something known as the CNY Peace Consortium. The conference is always filled with the usual supsects that find fault with America first. The keynote speaker for 2005's conference was Colman McCarthy. One of his numerous statements was,


<<< "On April 4, 1967, Martin Luther King, Jr., said that "the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today is my own government." He was right then and is right now. In only the past 20 years, the U.S. government has sent troops to kill or threaten to kill people in etc, etc." >>>


Other speakers listed were not so moderate as Mr. McCarthy in their remarks.

Never, ever, have I received from Zogby any poll result, let alone the full report. Zogby wants to make sure that this poll was trumpeted far and wide. His bias in 2004 is now on full display in 2006 without any pretense of impartiality.

In addition we have now the CBS poll with 409 Dem respondents and 272 Repub respondents (337 "independents). Last I looked Repub control the WH, Senate and House, yet in this poll they are outnumbered by a 10-7 margin.

Talk radio hosts make no bones about who they are and what they believe, left or right. That is what makes these people so dangerous, their lies of omission.

Update [2006-3-1 13:36:28 by Moe Lane]: Generation Why? did the unthinkable - he paid for the summary - and so got access to the questions. Which was nice of him, because otherwise I would have had to.

redstate.org

texasrainmaker.blogspot.com

msnbc.msn.com



To: Sully- who wrote (18377)3/1/2006 11:45:10 PM
From: Sully-  Respond to of 35834
 
Zogby's Folly

By Hugh Hewitt

You will no doubt have heard of Zogby's new poll touting the lead finding: 'U.S. Troops in Iraq: 72% Say End War in 2006'.

This finding is so fundamentally at odds with almost everything I have heard from milbloggers, returning troops and visitors to Iraq --including Victor Davis Hanson who just returned last week from a vsit to many of the bases around the country-- that I dug into the small print, and then went to find expert analysis from places like The Mystery Pollster and The Democracy Project.

Bottom line: John Zogby took ant-war activist dollars, mixed in some secret questions and methodologies, and asks the American public to trust him. Before you do, recall his performance on Election Day, 2004.


cnsnews.com

My producer reached Zogby on his cell phone to request an on-air interview. Zogby hung up on him.

No serious media outlet should carry this "poll" as "news," but its lure as more anti-war agitprop will overwhelm news judgment.

hughhewitt.com

zogby.com

mysterypollster.com

democracy-project.com

cnsnews.com



To: Sully- who wrote (18377)3/2/2006 1:27:17 AM
From: Sully-  Respond to of 35834
 
    [N]ot a single visitor to Iraq from any media or 
political party, including critics of the Iraq war, has
reported any such negativity among the troops there.
Indeed, overwhelming support for the mission and for
finishing the job is reported. Similarly, among the 1,246
military blogs, one would have to search hard and long to
find such corroborating negativity.

How reliable is Zogby poll of military in Iraq?

Bruce Kesler
Democracy Project

The latest Zogby “poll” purports to show heavy unclarity of mission and support for leaving Iraq during the next year or sooner among our servicepeople in Iraq.

However, Zogby’s poll purposely leaves open too many questions, which combined with the performance and nature of the Zogby polling organization, raises many doubts as to the poll’s reliability.

First, the questions asked are not publicly revealed, nor the preparatory statements to the questions.
Results of polls can vary widely depending on how the questions are presented, and prefaced by what information or assertions. Further, the questioner may affect the willingness of the respondent to be questioned, affecting the results, and may select those responding, again affecting the results. Those administering the questionnaire to troops are not revealed.

Second, the survey methodology is not publicly revealed.
Without this standard professional transparency and peer review, it is impossible to test reliability.

Third, the specific demographics of the military members in Iraq are not known.
Without this benchmark, it is impossible to know whether the sample is representative.

Further, as Zogby told the Mystery Pollster:

<<< According to the procedure Zogby described, respondents were intercepted randomly (e.g. they were not self-selected) at multiple locations throughout Iraq (e.g. not just in the so-called “Green Zone”)…Zogby was willing to share the specific geographic locations where they collected data on the condition I nor repeat them. I passed on the offer as my knowledge of Iraq and military operations there is cursory at best, but I have no doubt his offer was genuine. >>>

Thus, aside from generic methodology issues, the ability of this polling expert to evaluate the validity of the poll is weak.

The Mystery Pollster, apparently liberal
but quite professional in his judgments, interviewed John Zogby about the methodology of this poll. According to the interview:

<<< Zogby provided Nick Kristof and others reporting on the poll full details about his methodology on an “off-the-record” basis.

Zogby’s response to the question as to “what advice he would offer data consumers who find this all puzzling. In this case, he said, ‘you have to trust me.” >>>


Sorry, that’s not how professional, reputable, reliable polling is done.

Fourth, the organization sponsoring the poll, Le Moyne College Center for Peace and Global Studies is a typical leftist campus creation, and Zogby is frequently criticized for producing the poll results desired by its client. As the liberal American Prospect said of “a closer look at his methods”:


<<< Media coverage of polling results often neglects to mention the self-interestedness of the sponsor, and John Zogby is a leading enabler. Today, Zogby International's polling reputation may be second only to that of the hallowed Gallup Organization, which makes having a Zogby Poll extremely desirable for advocacy groups across the political spectrum…. As Zogby himself acknowledges, the repute he derives from media polling helps him sell his services to more self-interested clients. The lucky groups end up with the Zogby brand name attached to findings that advance their agendas. "Media organizations should have people who absolutely aren't polling for interest groups," observes Robert Blendon, who directs Harvard University's Program on Public Opinion and Health and Social Policy. Blendon notes that most major media polling conglomerates, such as the ABC News/Washington Post Poll, maintain firewalls between their work and outside interests... >>>


Further, it is a mystery where this campus sponsor came up with the big bucks to sponsor such a poll. That's hardly the type of finances that a small liberal arts college department has available.

The Mystery Pollster (link above) reports that:

<<< The Center for Peace and Global Studies paid Zogby to conduct the study but otherwise played no role in conducting interviews or gathering the data. >>>

However, as the American Prospect study of Zogby’s methods says:
    Zogby acknowledges that he retains control over question 
phrasing. Indeed, in the world of interest-group polling,
clients often submit proposed questions or concepts, but
much of what they are buying is the polling firm's
expertise in devising wording that produces results...
Fifth, John Zogby and his brother James, have a long record of pro-Arabist positions. Their own foreign policy predilections add to the suspicion of this poll’s reliability.

<<< ... The Christian Science Monitor hosted a breakfast with John Zogby (the pollster) and James Zogby (president of the Arab American Institute). Low and behold, the Zogby poll is described as being run by BOTH of them, not just by the pollster, and the discussion of it on TV has involved both of them - John talking about the poll itself, then a quick tag to James who rails against U.S. foreign policy... >>>


Lastly, not a single visitor to Iraq from any media or political party, including critics of the Iraq war, has reported any such negativity among the troops there. Indeed, overwhelming support for the mission and for finishing the job is reported. Similarly, among the 1,246 military blogs, one would have to search hard and long to find such corroborating negativity.

UPDATE: See update, Expert: Zogby "poll" needs "big 'grains of salt'".
democracy-project.com

democracy-project.com

zogby.com

mysterypollster.com

prospect.org

hfienberg.com

milblogging.com



To: Sully- who wrote (18377)3/2/2006 8:22:40 PM
From: Sully-  Respond to of 35834
 
Zogby Hangs Up

by Hugh Hewitt

I interviewed John Zogby about 1:00 Pacific today, but he hung up on me after objecting to my questions. Among the questions:

Did he travel to Iraq to oversee the polling? (No.)

Would he tell me who had overseen the polling? (Information International of Beirut.)

Would he tell me who at Information International? (No.)

What did he pay the survey takers? (He wouldn't say).

Had he been invited by the someone in the American military to brief on results? (Yes.)

Who was that? (He wouldn't say.)

Why hadn't he released the demographics? (He had, he said. I disagreed. He hung up.)

I'll play the interview a few times. In fairness, his office had sent the demographics info (which had not been released yesterday and still isn't on the web) but did so in a PDF file that we were only able to read after downloading a new version of Adobe. When we were talking, we didn't have the demographics. Had Zogby simply told me the demographics were now out after previously being withheld, that would have been fine. Radioblogger will post the transcript, the questions (which I did have and which I was about to get into with him when he hung up) and the survey questions and results later today.

The "poll" is quite obviously crap when one sees the questions, and Zogby's refusal to answer basic questions that do not go to security underscores his defensiveness. The survey instrument is shot through with absurd choices while missing obvious questions, such as "How important is success of this mission?" and "Describe your morale?" It would have been interesting to ask if the troops have heard of Cindy Shaheen, or their opinion of the antiwar activists, though of course an antiwar activist paid for this circus.

I doubt it would be appropriate to ask for opinions on the president or Secretary Rumsfeld, but given that Zogby didn't ask for permission from the Pentagon, he might want to answer that down the line.

In the interview Zogby complains that his PR director told my producer he wouldn't discuss some things on air. Fine. I didn't ask any of those things, like base location or identity or methods of the "poll" takers.

But Zogby flew off the handle at one point exclaiming he was a patriot, a fact with which I don't disagree and haven't raised.

I think he's a shameless self-promoting pretend pollster, that's all.

And I think the smoke about "security" is just that. And refusing to tell me which military man wanted a briefing was the giveaway.

You can trust John Zogby as much as this poll. Which means, not at all.

Criticism of Zogby is not new, nor confined to the center-right. See Chris Mooney's "The Creative Polls of John Zogby," from the February 1, 2003 American Prospect.


prospect.org

UPDATE: Mystery Pollster links to this article which quotes Zogby letting his agenda slip:

<<< "The results are startling," Zogby said. "I'm not the first person to use the term 'Vietnam,' but it does suggest somewhat of a morale issue - certainly a disagreement." >>>

UPDATE: A thread on the interview over at FreeRepublic.
freerepublic.com


Over at Zogby.com, the non-pollster is busy touting all the favorable stories on his non-poll poll, including the New York Times' Nicholas Kristoff's interpretation of the non-poll's non-data:


<<< Kristof calls the survey of soldiers "one more bit of evidence that our grim stay-the-course policy in Iraq has failed. Even the American troops on the ground don't buy into it" and having administration officials pontificate from the safety of Washington about the need for ordinary soldiers to stay the course further erodes military morale. >>>

BTW: Despite Zogby's shouted assertion that the demographics had been released, they are still not easily found on his website. Yes, he sent them to me in a not-easily read PDF, but why not make them easily available for the public to see? Reminder: The questions and some demographics (no cross-tabs) are up at Radioblogger.com)

UPDATE: More from Democracy Project.
democracy-project.com

hughhewitt.com

radioblogger.com

prospect.org

mysterypollster.com

syracuse.com

zogby.com