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Strategies & Market Trends : 2026 TeoTwawKi ... 2032 Darkest Interregnum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Crabbe who wrote (4788)	3/10/2006 2:23:40 PM
From: gg cox	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 219447

""The EROEI for crude oil in Saudi Arabia is highly different from the EROEI for a gallon of gas at the pump in the US."" Yes it would be different, but obviously with 1 barrel of oil in to get 30 out...transportation and refining costs of those 30 will give a much higher EROi for the gasoline that comes out of those 30 barrels. ""However two things if Mid East Oil produces a 30:1 or even 100:1 EROEI at the well head. That is not the EROEI at the port of shipment, nor is it the EROEI of oil at the receiving port in the US, nor is it the EROEI at the receiving refinery, nor again is it the EROEI of the refined gasoline at the refinery, nor again is it the EROEI of the gasoline at the pump where you fill your tank."" No it is not, but as above, applying common sense... seems like a positive EROI well above 1 and less that 30 would be logical. ""Second the EROEI of oil anywhere else in the world is less than that of Mid East Oil, drilling depths, Difficulties (deep water (gulf)), remote distance (north slope), weather conditions (north sea, north slope, etc.) all make well head EROEI lower than Mid East oil."" Yes, you forgot to mention oil sands.<g> ""In any case EROEI can be totally useless when figuring practicality of a fuel medium, for example Hydrogen. $RO$I will make hydrogen a viable fuel even though it will always have a negative EROEI."" Yes, but for limited and specific applications, indoor forklift for example. "" Energy such as tidal flow in Cook Inlet Alaska, even though it could have an extremely good EROEI would be worthless because of transmission cost, however as a medium to convert water to hydrogen and shipping hydrogen could be lucrative."" Can't agree with that.Electricity generated from tidal flow in Cook Inlet Alaska would not be worthless to those living in the vacinity of Cook Inlet(grid and transformers).Not lucrative to waste the electricity you would already have trying to convert water to hydrogen (again, laws of thermodynamics apply) and then trying to compress and force it thru a pipeline...transporting hydrogen via pipeline, or compressed in a tank is a disaster, google it and you will see it is a more difficult gas than your own. ""Another point, any study that is older than a year or two has been obsoleted by new technologies. Studies that show an EROEI for ethanol ignore new processes that extract the oil for biodiesel as an example. Studies of Biomass that are even 6 months old are unreliable because of constant advances in bioengineering of the microbes needed to convert the cellulose to ethanol."" I agree, can not google much on EROI for gasoline, might have to go back to reading books. ""Further every one is quoting the 30% difference in ethanol and gasoline in BTU per gallon, yet ignoring the fact that the mileage difference is only 7-10%. I think the article said 7 to 12 percent but am not quibbling it is less. ""(Ethanol burns cleaner and more efficiently)."" Maybe true,but there are other concerns with cold weather driving and the characteristic to sink underneath gasoline in the tank and then take up water which may be in the tank.We need the test of time especially in cold climates.

To: Crabbe who wrote (4788)	3/10/2006 3:48:04 PM
From: Snowshoe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 219447

>>Energy such as tidal flow in Cook Inlet Alaska<< Tidal power would be great for Anchorage, but it would likely face environmental opposition due to a serious decline in the local Beluga whale population. One option is to integrate it with Don Young's other "bridge to nowhere". >>would be worthless because of transmission cost<< You must have been away for a really, really long time. Anchorage and the railbelt has really grown, and there is plenty of demand for power. The Cook Inlet natural gas fields are declining rapidly, so we are facing a major looming energy crisis. As a partial solution, Chugach Electric wants to build a wind turbine farm on Fire Island. Other options include piping gas from Nenana or the North Slope, or building more coal plants.