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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (183311)	3/12/2006 12:12:55 AM
From: 2MAR$	Read Replies (5) \| Respond to of 281500

even 9/11 hasn't woken you up to reality.... Here's something that might remind him , smoking ruins in NYC video.google.com

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (183311)	3/13/2006 1:42:44 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

Hawk your post is filled with poorly reasoned speculation, mistatements and non-sequitors. Your wisdom base is far too polluted with assumptions that have been discredited, even on Fox News. Those fallacious assumptions impact your ability to analyze issues and destroy your ability to cogently argue. The post I'm responding to is replete with such assumptions: The Taliban took over without our offering any opposition You think we had the right to intervene in Afghan politics BEFORE they cooperated with Bin Ladin and conspired in the attacks on 9/11? You think "our" opposition would have been effective and legal? YOU THINK WE HAVE THAT RIGHT AND THAT POWER? How's it going in Afghanistan and Iraq now that we've offered stupendous "opposition?" Your failure to recognize the limits of American power underlie almost all of your posts. Iraq was gradually becoming the same way, despite the power of Saddam Hussein... Hell, he was harboring Al Qai'da affliated groups like Ansar Al Islam... Ansar Al Islam was on the other side of the Kurish area, and area where Saddam HAD NO CONTROL. Can you understand that? Saddam was hated by the Islamist radicals. Saddam killed their clerics. Saddam repressed them using the same techniques that we've come to use against them...war and deadly police force tactics. And they hated him. That's another of the long-held and entirely discredited assumptions that have colored, and continue to color, your convoluted reasoning. After all, do you think the religious and logistical network for Zarqawi just emerged overnight? No, that network has grown from a seedling to a tree in the fertile ground that we plowed with our invasion. Post invasion the chaos that is Iraq has proven a breeding pond and a training ground for terrorists and insurgents. It's feeding on the blood of American soldiers, sustained by the billions of dollars of corruption and theft that's arisen since we occupied and it's not going to get better until some kind of post-occupation equilibrium occurs. It's time for you to follow the lead of other neocons and face the fact that we've dramatically worsened the threat of terrorism by creating a power vacuum in Iraq and opening up what many refer to as Pandora's box. Your stubborn refusal to acknowledge that fact and your tortured attempts to support your argument that it would have been worse if we hadn't acted are allegations that have long since been discredited and are now abandoned by even the most radical spinners in the neocom movement. Hell, even 9/11 hasn't woken you up to reality.... Whoa! Iraq-9/11, Saddam-9/11? Where did that come from. Does 9/11 justify any silly, counterproductive and brutal action on the part of America? Even when there is NOOOOO connection? That's yet another discredited argument and one that leads to dangerously foolish actions that make the situation FAR WORSE. What's it going to take Ed... A chemical attack?? The reality is that the possibility of another serious attack is high. That doesn't mean we should make it higher by expending huge amounts of manpower and resources on tactics and policies that WORSEN the situation. It's not enough that dangerously counterproductive efforts are justified by saying, "we were TRYING to help." It's imperative that we use our BRAINS to get it right. So don't try to claim a hero's role by claiming there's a threat out there that only the scared witless recognize. We ALL understand that, even those of us who can still think clearly without getting all hysterical about the risks. Ed