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Politics : Welcome to Slider's Dugout -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: J.B.C. who wrote (1308)3/17/2006 10:07:34 AM
From: gold$10k  Respond to of 50502
 
J.B.C.,

You may be right or maybe not... so much information and who to believe. The bottom line for me is that so much of what the government says and does makes it clear to me that they are complicit in an ongoing attempt to enrich themselves and their friends at the expense of everyone else with a ruthlessness and brutality which is an order of magnitude greater than anything prevously seen in this country. Each successive lie makes me doubt all the more that any of the liars' statements is true and leads me to suspect that they may have done even more dastardly things than I had previously suspected.

vt



To: J.B.C. who wrote (1308)3/17/2006 10:26:31 AM
From: FreedomForAll  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 50502
 
The "article" link is bad. Could you post the correct one please, so we can judge for ourselves.

As far as the buildings falling and the intent of the bombers to drop them straight down, we haven't enough data to decide the intent. But there is enough data to cast overwhelming doubt on the story that the media expects us to believe, and that data comes from the US government. US government is withholding data that could prove their story (if true) if released, but they won't release it. This leads the prudent observer to believe that the govt has something to hide and might have been complicit in the disaster. Especially since the US government has done this sort of thing before.

I say, "show me the evidence" ... then maybe I will believe the story.



To: J.B.C. who wrote (1308)3/17/2006 10:47:59 AM
From: Sawdusty  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 50502
 
JBC, although I have no intention of getting into a long drawn out debate on the subject, I will address just one of your points. There are strong feelings on both sides of the issue, people have to make up their own minds, but you stated the following:

"And oh, how about the primacord? There would have had to have been thousands of feet of it laid before hand, I think someone would have noticed in a fully occupied building? Don't you?"

The possible answer to your question can be found here.

sf.indymedia.org

WE RECEIVED THE FOLLOWING from someone who worked for Fiduciary Trust on the 90th, 94-97th floors of the South Tower:

"On the weekend of 9/8,9/9 there was a 'power down' condition in WTC tower 2, the south tower. This power down condition meant there was no electrical supply for approx 36 hrs from floor 50 up. I am aware of this situation since I work in IT and had to work with many others that weekend to ensure that all systems were cleanly shutdown beforehand ... and then brought back up afterwards. The reason given by the WTC for the power down was that cabling in the tower was being upgraded ...

"Of course without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors and many, many 'engineers' coming in and out of the tower. I was at home on the morning of 9/11 on the shore of Jersey City, right opposite the Towers, and watching events unfold I was convinced immediately that something was happening related to the weekend work."



To: J.B.C. who wrote (1308)3/19/2006 10:18:20 AM
From: SliderOnTheBlack  Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 50502
 
Of Money, Politics and War ................

Everyone's passions, regardless of which side of the argument (or, in the middle) that you find yourself supporting...are much welcome here and greatly appreciated.

While I have no desire to turn this thread purely into one of political debate, or a conspiracy theory of the month club outpost. In the world that we find ourselves in today -- one can not divorce politics, money and war from the financial markets....as they have never in history, been more interwoven.

I don't profess to have all of the answers and that, in and of itself; is my primary point:

We've reached a time and place in America, where finding the right answers has never been more difficult, or more important to America's future.

And the only way we are going to find either the truth, or the right answers -- is in asking the right questions.

Often those questions are going to be very difficult. They may challenge the very foundation of what we have been taught to believe in and all that we have learned to trust.

That's the reason I asked everyone to watch (in it's entirety) that incredible documentary about the September 11th attacks on the Twin Towers:

video.google.com

America has allowed itself to become fractured and deeply divided into special interest groups. Indeed, the first half of the equation of divide and conquer has clearly been achieved.

Republican versus Democrat. Black versus White. Rich versus Poor. Conservative versus Liberal.

Somewhere in that divide... America and everything that it stands for, along with the very principles upon which it was built....has been lost.

In today's America, political power and money have become concentrated as never before. Technology has changed not just the way we lead our daily lives...but, the way in which money and power are both accumulated and maintained.

In light of the Patriot Act and the explosion in modern technology...George Orwell's 1984 has now arrived.

One only needs to follow the money and those who hold power. For example, our former Director of Homeland Security Tom Ridge, is now on the board of directors of a company specializing in human implant RFID chips...in an environment of near complete and total ignorance among the American people about the Patriot Act and it's even more repressive and threatening Patriot Act II.

Read this and wake up America....mandatory DNA databases, human implant RFID chips, Government monitoring and database building of virtually all online searches and all forms of communications, the suspension of basic constitutional rights...

Out Of Chaos -- Comes Order:

....The New World Order

Read about the Patriot Act part II here:
writ.news.findlaw.com

Equally as alarming is the amazing prescience of former US President Dwight D. Eisenhower's farewell speech of January 17, 1961:

eisenhower.archives.gov

Eisenhower warned: "that a dangerous elite of power was developing in the United States which was no longer responsive to the cares and desires of ordinary Americans - specifically, that advances in technology combined with the growing defense needs of the country had created an opportunity for elites in the military establishment, "Big Business," and politics to exert an undue and improper influence on the formation and conduct of national policy."

We've allowed our Government to debase the US Dollar and our purchasing power by over 30%, run US debt and deficits to unprecedented levels -- triggering dire warnings by everyone from former Fed Gov. Paul Volker, to Warren Buffet.

Are Volker & Buffet conspiracy theory cassandra's as well?

George W. Bush is the first US President in history has who never used his Veto!. But wait -- there's more !

From 1789 to the year 2000 -- it took 42 prior US Presidents and 211 years to accumulate $1.01 Trillion in government debt.

But, it only took George W. Bush 4 years to nearly double US debt -- addding another mind-boggling $1.05 Trillion of government debt...that now rests not just upon the shoulders of U.S. Taxpayers...but, now upon the shoulders of their children...and their childrens-children.

That my friends... is both the greatest theft in the History of the World and also the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of the world.

Big Oil get's billions of dollars in government subsidies, hundreds of billions of dollars in windfall profits, access to cheap, known assests on US Government Land...but, without any requirement to add refining capacity and end the easily and often manipulated choke-points and corresponding gasoline price-gouging of the US consumer.

While papa Bush's Carlyle Group and the Military Industrial Defense Complex and Big Oil suck hundreds of billions of dollars out of your pockets into theirs.... thousands of FEMA trailers set rotting in the mud at an aristrip in Hope, Arkansas , as this administration wastes countless billions more.

This Bush Administration has now spent $500 Billion (soon to rise to at least $800 Billion) on the War in Iraq.

So, what have "we the people" received for our $500 Billion?

We have built scores of massive, permanent military bases in Iraq and throughout the Middle East, whose clear purpose is to control Mid-East Oil supplies...which in turn has caused geopolitical tensions to mount and ramp the price of Oil --even as inventory levels reach near record surplus levels in the USA.

This has all led to hundreds of billions of dollars of windfall profits for Halliburton & Big Oil, Goldman Sachs & Globalist Investment Bankers and the Military Industrial Defense Complex.

...whodathunkit?

$800 Billion of your taxpayer money spent on a War with Iraq that has led to the direct transfer of hundreds of billions of dollars out of YOUR POCKETS (and your childrens) and into the pockets of the monied political power base of the Bush Administration....while you sucked from the teat of cheap & copius credit, a propped up & reflated stocked market and swooned under new found riches from the Greenspan Fed created Housing Bubble (as Fannie & Freddie cooked their Enron-esque books).

But, what were the alternatives to spending $800 Billion on stomping out that evil global empire otherwise known as -- Iraq and lining the pockets of Halliburton, Big Oil and the Military Industrial Defense Complex?

How about spending only $200 Billion to completely build out the infrastructure and delivery system of the Canadian Oil & Tar Sands which would have guaranteed North America of 100+ years of Energy Independance...instead of Mid-East & Big Oil -- Dependance.

How right on the money was Eisenhower ?

Given the porosity of our borders and the millions of illegals already in the US...do you think that perhaps the entire terrorist threat to America was perhaps just a bit over-stated?

If Drug Smugglers can send container loads, truckloads and car loads of drugs and illegals accross, under and over our borders with a 95%+ success rate... don't you think that terrorists could as well ?

Bush has pulled border agents off of the Southern Border and drug smuggling and the number of illegal aliens entering our borders has ramped exponentially.

Individual Federal Agents, along with the Governors of our Southern Border States and local Sheriff's are all crying out for help.

Homeland Security is one of the biggest shams ever perpetrated upon the American people -- period.

Talk to US Custom, or Border Agents... listen to what the rank and file agents are already saying...

Enforcement is a joke....there is none.

And the reason there is none -- is because the entire terrorist threat has been vastly over-stated...and there is no windfall profits to the Bush supporters to be reaped by increasing the number of Border, Customs and INS Agents, or in passing and enforcing tough immigration laws.

Patting down blue-haired grandmothers at LaGuardia and frisking freckle-faced 9 year olds at O'Hare is -- all for show...and America is begining to wake up to that very fact.

We are now being asked to give up basic freedom after freedom -- in the name of a sham War on Terrorism -- that does not exist.

The Bush administration is not interested in eliminating the major threats to the US people.

North Korea is an exponentially greater Nuclear threat than Iran every dreamed of being.... so why aren't we mustering for War with them?

Why do we allow Russia to double-deal us ?

Why do we allow China to supply both North Korea and Iran with high tech nuclear and missle technology -- that is a direct threat to the US?

Why won't we secure our borders?

Who benefits by the hunreds of billions of dollars creatd by the underground drug economy and porous borders?

Why don't we enforce FAIR TRADE...in the name of Free Trade -- in which America's main export has become -- our jobs?

The Price of Freedom has never been cheap.

America has allowed itself to be misdirected and divided by the special interests of Abortion, Race and Tax Cut & Housing Bubble Economics...all the while our basic freedoms are being rapidly infringed upon, if not quietly eliminated.

One day very soon, we may all wake up to a nuclear crisis, or a bird-flu pandemic and find ourselves amidst Patriot Act "III" and a world that not only Orwell & Eisenhower warned us against...but, one that our founding fathers tried to protect us from by framing this country and our basic rights and freedoms in the Bill of Rights and the US Constitution.

Two documents that are sadly becoming a distant memory along with a government by, of and for the people...

Wake Up America...and start asking the difficult questions -- before it's too late.

Slider