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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (183834)	3/21/2006 12:28:48 AM
From: Sam	Respond to of 281500

Charlie Rose had a really fine program tonight, discussing (what else?) the Iraq situation. There were supporters and opposers on his panel. People who think the country should be broken up (Les Gelb) and people who think they still might make a go of it, we must be patient for another 5 years (Fouad Ajani [sp?], the guy at Hopkins). And of course people who think it is simply a disaster. Recommended watching/listening. Will be on the web tomorrow. ps. Great post, Ed. One of many.

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (183834)	3/21/2006 8:29:16 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Unfortunately I suspect the new mantra for Hawk is "God given right to democracy;" Yeah... I happen TO BELIEVE IT. The whole basis of our nation is founded upon it. The very ideal of the "inalienable rights of mankind" are embodied in it. Now, to you, maybe they are just pretty words, or just the product of the brainwashed religiousity of our founding fathers being used as a convenient excuse to reject monarchy and decentralize power from the English Monarchy. However, I happen to believe that these values are the fruition of mankind to formulate a form of self-government, or at least a government where the powerful are answerable to the citizenry they assert to rule. I also believe in statuatory law derived from the power that the people have bestowed upon their temporary representatives, not an abitrary set of legal values that changes from ruler to ruler. I also believe that the taxes I pay are MY MONEY, provided to the government to be wisely spent on the behalf of myself, my fellow citizens, and our mutual defense. That money does not belong to the government, or the congress. But I guess you're not a beleiver in any of those things either. Which leaves me wondering exactly what it is you believe in if you can compare self-governing democracies as no different than the average dictatorship or totalitarian system. Hawk

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (183834)	3/21/2006 8:42:06 AM
From: michael97123	Respond to of 281500

we agree on the top part of your/my post. Hawk is showing some fanaticism (or desperation) in his posts. The rest of it history will judge. Whats important now is what policy we follow from here on in. Tim Russert said it best on IMUS today. He said to paraphrase that he doesnt have a fucking clue. Neither do i at this point. I sense its an important thing to have a better outcome than civil war but i also sense that americans have been dying in vain to prevent the inevitable so i am torn. So the best i can do is: 1. Stated timetables 2. 3 state solution if federal solution breaks down due to iraqi political stupidity and civil war. 3. Realization of the fact that if split, sunni part becomes Palestine #2 and the new hotbed for terror and instability in the mideast. + the damage that will do to US FP in the area 4. Per NYT oped tierney. Talk to iran and separate iran from the sunni terrorists by normalizing relations in exchange for nuke limitations. There have to be some iranians whose see a greater value in engaging with us more than getting nukes--I hope. 5. Support the presidents in any efforts to make the situation better. The most virulent detractors need to tone down the rhetoric and support the admin if he follows a better road.