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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Ilaine who wrote (15829)4/4/2006 11:11:55 AM
From: Ilaine  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 541780
 
>> What you get when you mix Red and Green - a bad political climate
By Charles Moore

<snip>
In New Zealand this week, in remarks which, in some respects, showed signs of mental life (and were therefore immediately attacked by Greens), Tony Blair began with the great piety of current Green thought. "In terms of the long-term future," he said, "there is no issue more important than climate change."

The Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, went further. He told the BBC's Today programme that we must support government "coercion" over enforcing "international protocols" and speed limits on motorways "if we want the global economy not to collapse and millions, billions of people to die".

The evidence for claims like the above is based on one or two generally accepted facts. One is that average temperatures since the 1860s have risen by 0.6 degrees centigrade. Another is that some of this change (though how much is disputed) is man-made.

Upon these rather modest foundations is erected a whole edifice of theory which purports to show not only that change is happening, but also that such change will be disastrous, and that life as we know it will be all but destroyed in the coming century unless we do something dramatic now.

I am not a scientist, so I do not know whether any of the arguments about climate change are sound, but then nor does Mr Blair or Dr Williams, although obviously they are more expensively briefed by experts than I am.

This article can therefore form no judgment on the relative importance of the factors in climate change. Is it true, for example, that the "albedo" of the surface of the Earth is a more vital factor than carbon emissions because of the way the Earth reflects incoming solar radiation? I don't know. What about the changing cycles of the Sun, the Milankovitch cycles of the Earth, volcanoes? Again, I don't know, and nor do they.

What one can ask, though, is why it is so important for so many people to believe that this disaster is coming upon us.

Once upon a time, pollution was something the Left almost approved of. New dams and factories and mines gave more power to the organised working class, and had to be rushed forward to replace the feudal societies which socialism overthrew. Worker control of the means of production was good; therefore production itself was good, and pollution was ignored on the you-can't-make-an-omelette-without-breaking-eggs principle.

In the Eighties, it was Margaret Thatcher, of all people, who was attracted to the theory of global warming. She saw it as a justification for the development of nuclear power. Her experience with the oil crises of the 1970s and the coal strikes of the 1970s and 1980s made her keen to get away from fossil fuels.

But with the end of the Cold War, and therefore the collapse of heavy-industry-for-socialism, the Left began to find in Green issues a new unifying theme. If the workers were not going to get their hands on the means of production, the theory had to shift. Now those means themselves were wicked. Capitalist greed, especially American greed, was destroying the planet, they decided.

Once this wickedness was established, the Left could advance another of its causes - the need for the government to take control of the private and the international to squash the national. And the beauty of it is that everything can come under the rubric of "saving the planet". Whether it's speed limits or disposable nappies or second homes or cheap flights or old fridges or how many babies you have, you can be told not to do whatever it is you are doing. And if you complain, you can be marked out as a selfish pig, one who has what the archbishop calls a "lifestyle that doesn't consider those people who don't happen to share the present moment with us".

To those who like the idea that the state can control everything, it must have been a constant source of irritation that the weather could not be subject to five-year plans and government targets. If you accept climate change theories, it can be, indeed it must be. Without global governmental action, the doctrine teaches, we shall all perish.

At this point, the religious impulse forms an unholy - or rather, a holier-than-thou - alliance with the political. In every age, religions have tended to relate extremes of climate to sin. It was because the people were bad that God sent floods upon the earth, and it was because Noah was a just man that he was allowed to build the Ark, and put the leading representatives of creation into it.

Today, rising sea levels threaten to punish our greed and selfishness, say the Greens. Frightened by this sort of thing, rich men with uneasy consciences who, in the Middle Ages, would have endowed monasteries, today spend fortunes on sacrifices to the goddess Gaia. Johan Eliasch, whose success in life (selling sporting equipment) has been all to do with activity, movement, velocity, has just bought 400,000 acres of rainforest with the intention of doing nothing with it. The modern equivalent of the Ark is the Kyoto Conference.

If you do not accept this, you cannot be part of what in Genesis is called the covenant of the rainbow. You are Bad. Today's servile interviewer asked Dr Williams: "President Bush is a Christian; are his actions compatible with Christian ethics?" Dr Williams thought not.

Under this huge moral blackmail, the prudent politician, particularly the politician who does not have to make actual decisions, bows the knee. David Cameron sticks a solar panel on his roof, just as a New York mayoral candidate wears a shamrock on St Patrick's Day. It is presumably only because Mr Blair knows that he is leaving his job that he dares to point out that China, India and Brazil, which are not bound by the Kyoto targets, are committing sins of emission beside which our modest transgressions hardly trouble the scorer. (China has 30,000 coal mines and car sales are rising by 80 per cent a year.)

If I am right, the politics of climate change are bad. They attract the self-righteous and the self-flagellating, the controlling, the life-denying, the people who don't like people, the people who, like Private Fraser in Dad's Army, think we're "all DOOMED". And when I listen to many of the scientists who join in the argument, I often hear in what they say not the voice of science itself, but of the bad politics, thinly disguised by a white coat.
<snip>
<<
telegraph.co.uk



To: Ilaine who wrote (15829)4/4/2006 11:15:20 AM
From: epicure  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 541780
 
Well, there are two issues here- one definitional issue and one health issue.

According to the dictionary high heat open flame cooking can indeed be barbecue- and in the West it's pretty much the only kind of barbecue. No matter how much people from the South love their other kinds of barbecue, grilling, according to the dictionary, is barbecuing. That soppy meat in the red sauces probably causes cancer as well, but perhaps not the same kinds. The cancer in question with the blackened meat was prostate, but if the slow cooked barbecue has smoke flavoring in it, then it also would be carcinogenic, and of course all meat is implicated in colon cancer.

If you want to be really healthy, you minimize the red meats and carbs, eat almost no sugar, eat very little meat in general of all kinds, lots of fruits and veggies (without pesticides), and drink plenty of clean filtered water.

We know what the best diets are, everything else is just about what you can get away with before your diet causes you a serious chronic disease, or kills you. And it's fine to try to get away with eating badly, but with all the really tasty good for you foods out there, I'm not sure I see the point.



To: Ilaine who wrote (15829)4/4/2006 11:23:26 AM
From: carranza2  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 541780
 
They're confused, for no good reason.

I don't see why.

The study said high temperature grilled BBQ causes prostate cancer in rats.

In rats.

There is no claim that BBQ of whatever nature, i.e., grilled, slow cooked, etc., causes prostate cancer in humans.

Of course, these are probably specially bred rats designed to mimic human responses. This fact by itself might make some exceedingly cautious men stop eating BBQ, however it is defined.

The link between rats and humans does often break down. Until someone shows a positive connection between BBQ and prostate cancer in humans, the suggestion that it causes prostate cancer in humans remains unproven, like global warming due to human factors.

A good place to look for a relationship between grilled meat consumption and excess prostate cancers from an epidemiological standpoint is Argentina, where grilled meat is eaten by many several times a week. If such a statistically valid study shows a link in Argentina, I will cut down meat eating to two or three times a month from my current five or six.

Until then, don't worry be happy.

You don't have a prostate to worry about, anyway.



To: Ilaine who wrote (15829)4/4/2006 11:28:01 AM
From: Lane3  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 541780
 
high temperatures cause the carcinogens to form.

Isn't the problem the burning of the food, regardless of the temperature? I've lost track of this question. It's been a while since it was raised and I may have a faulty memory of the particulars.

I remember when restaurants were touting the wonderful taste of their charring and you couldn't find a steak that hadn't been. I remember it because char is one of the very slim handful of things I won't eat. Hate the burned taste and I'm mystified about its attraction to so many people.

I remember the problem as the charring, not the cooking temperature. The reason I ask is that I cook at high temperatures, but I don't burn anything.

I love North Carolina BBQ. I'm quite sure it's not carcinogenic.



To: Ilaine who wrote (15829)4/4/2006 11:44:25 AM
From: JohnM  Respond to of 541780
 
Just to be clear, the reason "grilled" vs. BBQ matters is that the report said that high temperatures cause the carcinogens to form. Real Texas BBQ, like JohnM likes, real Southern BBQ, real Memphis BBQ, real whatever BBQ, doesn't use high heat, so, does it cause cancer or not?

Well, I'm hardly an authority on "real" Texas BBQ but my recent experiences suggest the high heat is a variable not a constant in such.

On the one hand, one wonderful BBQ place in a small central Texas town, Llano, grills the meat on an open grill. You get to watch it being grilled as you stand in line. It's definitely hot.

On the other hand, a place I eat, infrequently, say once every two of three year, in Elgin, between Austin and Houston, it's clearly not grilled on an open flame.

But we've now just exhausted my knowledge. I'm the family dishwasher; not the cook.