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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (184687)	4/6/2006 4:34:35 PM
From: Ish	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<<But that doesn't mean that a lot of innocent people aren't going to die as a result of their vain attempts to do so...>> Little town in Central Illinois, 2 Muslim men ran a Huck's gas and snack store, land office business. On 9/9 everything was cut to 1/2 price. Cash flow out the ass. On 9/10 the store didn't open, the men were gone leaving even their clothes and grooming items behind. Cash was gone. Odd thing was they were only 10 miles from two reservoirs that supplied water to 250,000 people.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (184687)	4/7/2006 12:39:51 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (6) \| Respond to of 281500

Hawk, re: "What I say is that they will TRY to destroy us.. They have taken a VOW TO DO SO. But they will fail because they don't have the means to accomplish the vision they have adopted. But that doesn't mean that a lot of innocent people aren't going to die as a result of their vain attempts to do so... All I'm saying is that we can confront them now, or wait until they are strong enough to increasingly advance their agenda to the point where we are forced to fight a major conflict with them, not just the current limited war. No, I don't have a cranial disconnect. But someone seems to have that problem. Why do I say that? Because your thinking can't seem to penetrate to the next level. Let me try to make it really, really simple for you. The Middle East is a region facing tremendous unrest. Not just in Iraq but throughout almost every nation in the region. There are too many scientifically ignorant, intolerant, religiously radical populations and there is simply too little acceptable leadership. The unrest was amplified and then suppressed by authoritarian regimes whose main purposes were to maintain power and control the wealth of the region. Muslim religious leaders opposed those regimes, the West supported most of them. The people hated most of those regimes. That's a powder keg that can only be defused by an explosion or by years, maybe generations, of gradual benevolent change. When we invaded and occupied Iraq and when we removed the only Iraqi institutions that had the ability to suppress the populations tendency toward religiously intolerant rule, we destroyed the possibility of gradual change and lit the fuse on that powder keg. The entire region is unstable and there are earthquakes of social, military and religious change that are going to shake the region for years, maybe longer. Part of that change will involve the radicalism of those who you say have "vowed" to destroy us. That is, however, not their main interest. Their main interest is destroying our participation in their region and attempting to gain control of the power of government there for their ideology. There are, however, many other and more powerful interest struggling for that same control. The interests with the most passion, the most widespread support and the greatest organization will win out in the various enclaves in the Middle East. You want to "confront them" militarily in their own homeland. You want to dictate the parameters of what is an "acceptable" way of governance for them. You want to dictate how they can treat other points of view, and women, and their relationships to the west. You think that will "help" them and be good for us. You're wrong. Not just a little wrong, you're off the map wrong. You don't understand human nature, the strong forces of nationalism, the power of the Muslim faith and its teachings on repelling infidel invaders, and you don't understand the generations of justifiably strong hatred that exists for foreign invaders who attempt to "influence" their lives. You also fail to appreciate that fact that the best cure for people who want flawed, repressive forms of government, whether religiously based or other ideology based, is simply to step aside and allow them the folly, and pain, of getting what they want. Some lessons must be learned the hard way and the innocent must suffer along with the guilty. (Hey, I didn't vote for Bush.) So, it's like this. If you have a good rifle and a rabid bear trapped in brushy thicket do you go in after him where he has the advantage or do you wait in the open and drop him if he comes after you? Why I'd leave him in there, especially since he'll die soon enough if you leave him alone. But not you. You'd say he wanted to attack. You'd say that if he attacked he could kill or cause rabies. You'd dwell on those risks and your fears over and over again and until that's all you could see and then you'd panic and go in that thicket after him. Or you'd send someone else in for him. And maybe he'd charge you from a few feet away, too close for you to bring that rifle into play, or maybe you'd get it into play but he'd still get to you. If you were lucky he'd only leave you scarred, deformed and crippled. Too bad, but you should have had the wisdom, patience and courage to wait in the open and see if he was coming. By going in you made sure that there was going to be an encounter and you made sure that it was going to be on the most favorable turf for the bear. Folly. In case you haven't figured it out, the thicket is the Middle East. There are a lot more reasons for staying out of their business until, or unless, the other countries of the Middle East ask for UN help and assistance. One reason is that it creates more bears if we go in. Another reason is that it gives more bears rabies if we go in. To use your own phrase; Is there some kind of cranial disconnect that prevents you from understanding that perspective?? Ed