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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Greg or e who wrote (39196)	4/14/2006 3:42:16 PM
From: average joe	Respond to of 39621

You're the greatest Greg or e...

To: Greg or e who wrote (39196)	4/23/2006 6:59:52 PM
From: Cyprian	Respond to of 39621

Greg or e, The dispute between the disciples as to which of them was greatest has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with what I am talking about. If we follow your foolish and nonsensical logic, there is either no true Church, or we are forced to accept that all the different "churches" out there, how many thousands of them there may be, are all part of Christ's one true Church. Let's debunk both of these woefully ignorant opinions. First of all, there has to be one true Church, for Christ said he would build His Church (singular) and the gates of Hades would NEVER prevail against it. Since we read in the book of Acts that subsequent to Pentecost: "the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." (Acts 2.47) All through the book of Acts, which incidentally the entire book of Acts was read in Orthodox Churches around the world last night on the eve of Pascha (Easter), we read of Christ's Church. So Christ's Church existed visibly long before Martin Luther and John Calvin and John Wesley and all the other Protestants of the last 500 years. Christ said the gates of Hades would NEVER prevail against His Church, so we know the Church did not just disappear throughout the centuries. It is impossible for the Church to disappear or become completely overcome by heresy, in any time period of history. There were times in history where it might have appeared as if heresy had totally infiltrated the Church, but she always emerged triumphant and there was always at least a visible remnant that preserved the Orthodox Faith pure, just as in the time of St. Noah there were still eight faithful souls. Therefore the traditions are available and able to be passed down in each and every generation. There are Orthodox Saints in every century, and there are writings that have been preserved from the 1st century, the 2nd century, the 3rd century, the 4th century, the 5th century, and so on, testifying to the traditions that Christians have always observed. My patron saint, St. Cyprian of Carthage, lived around 250 a.d., and there are many excellent writings of his that are preserved and can be read as a testimony to what ancient Christians believed. So yes, there is only One Lord, one faith, and one baptism, as St. Paul taught us. That is what Orthodoxy is about. A unity not based on some Pope who arrogantly presumes to exercise universal primacy over the entire Church with an iron fist, but a common unity of Orthodox Christians around the world who all share the same dogmas and apostolic traditions of the Faith, as defined by the Holy Tradition, which of course includes the Sacred Scriptures and the Seven Holy Ecumenical Councils, (held between 325 - 787 a.d.) which all Orthodox Christians around the world must adhere to, period. Church councils are not foreign to Christ's Church, you can read about the very first Church council held in chapter 15 of the book of Acts! Neither are bishops, priests and deacons foreign to Christ's church. You can read about them all throughout the book of Acts and in the Epistles. Christ's true Church must have bishops, priests, and deacons, as their offices are specified in the Holy Scriptures. I wonder where I can find the Preterist "church". Can someone tell me the name of a bishop in the "Preterist church"? Cyprian

To: Greg or e who wrote (39196)	4/23/2006 8:38:50 PM
From: Cyprian	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Jesus Forbids Sectarianism The Holy Orthodox Church is not a sect. It is Christ's one and only true Church. 49 Now John answered and said, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us.” 50 But Jesus said to him, “Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side.” Christ simply told his disciples not to forbid someone doing a miracle in His name. Don't try to make something more than what it is. He is on Christ's side when he is doing a good work in His name. Now if this individual then goes and preaches heresy he will no longer be on Christ's side, and then he could be rebuked for his false teachings. But this was not specified in this instance. Recall also what the Savior said: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matthew 7:22-23) Scripture clearly informs us that some people who have done miracles in the name of the Lord will not be saved, and therefore were never part of His Church, because he NEVER knew them. Do you see how it is possible to prophesy in Christ's name, do many wonderful works, etc. and still not be part of Christ's saving Body, the Church? This is a direct refutation of the notion that all one needs to do is profess the name Jesus with their lips, and they are automatically granted entrance to His Church. Nothing could be further from the truth. What better example is there than Judas Iscariot? He worked many miracles in the name of Christ, and did Christ forbid him? Of course not. Yet did he have any portion in Christ's Church? The answer is no. The Orthodox Church does not forbid anyone from doing a good work or miracle in the name of Christ, whether in pretense or in truth. I'm not saying Roman Catholics and Protestants can't do any good works in Christ's name, and they should not be rebuked for the good works that they do. They ought to be rebuked for the many false heresies they teach however. Do you see the difference? If one does a good work or miracle in the name of Christ, and then goes and preaches heresy, then of course every Christian has a right--nay rather an obligation--to defend the truth of the Gospel as the blessed Apostle Paul states. Hence my complaints are with those who teach falsehood and attempt thereby to subvert the Gospel. Cyprian