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To: Herb Duncan who wrote (9959)	4/30/2006 10:59:31 AM
From: LLCF	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 78419

<The answer is because it is about greed, control and power, the failure to understand the value of the "common good" is every sense of the word.> Just to interject a "koan" into the topic: Vigously promoting governmental policies that espouse the liberal social agenda (60's war on poverty) is also all about control and power. That said, I completely agree on military vs social spending... although a little abstinence would have helped our current situation. :) dAK

To: Herb Duncan who wrote (9959)	4/30/2006 1:44:36 PM
From: LoneClone	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 78419

Re the current primacy of greed, think of the words of the godmother of the neo-liberals (aka neo-cons), Margaret Thatcher. "There is no such thing as society." This world view not only sees human society as the war of all against all, but the neo-liberals' worship of the market as the prime deity means they see this as a good thing! If they didn't wreak so much havoc on others, I'd feel sorry for them. They cut themselves off from the most rewarding parts of living, when people come together for altruistic reasons and create something that is much more than the sum of its part. The rich networks of interactions and exchanges, sometimes operating in market-based principles and sometimes not. that make up society certainly do exist, and I am glad to take part. LC

To: Herb Duncan who wrote (9959)	4/30/2006 1:54:09 PM
From: E. Charters	Respond to of 78419

Is the eradication of disease, illiteracy and poverty desirable? Eradication of relative poverty is impossible. Eradication of disease is impossible. Attempts to do so may be dangerous. Eradication of illiteracy is only possible to a certain extent. Raising the lowest end of society in spending power and access to basic comforts allowing better sanitary conditions, is a good thing to spend time on. It has the side effect of improving the economy and lessening government bleed rates. Almost optimal lessening of disease and increase in literacy will follow. How best to do this? It can only be done by finding a sustainable economic base for the population. One that does not deplete their environment, ergo the sustainability. A sustainable economic base must be obtained by reducing regulation and providing incentive, and it is best done by the people who inhabit. What can governments do? Educate and promote, reduce taxes, raise deductions which will encourage research in order to increase industry, and free up land for development. Without the monetary base, the social and environmental evils cannot be attacked. The Vikings prime motive was profit. So in essence you cannot hand out unless you have. And the source of government hand outs are from the people who receive them. So we are back to conservative-associated incentives in order to kick start a social improvement program. A socialist give-away will corrupt the process and create a poisonous dependency that will perpetuate the Appalachias and only marginally improve conditions. The sheen of success from government social initiatives in a poverty stricken area is often a but a veneer of shellac on a base of decay. Preservational, but at the price of growth. EC<:-}

To: Herb Duncan who wrote (9959)	4/30/2006 6:50:54 PM
From: koan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 78419

That is such a good post Herb. "The answer is because it is about greed, control and power, the failure to understand the value of the "common good" is every sense of the word. Ultra conservative thinking and practices is social regression, nothing more or less that the law of the jungle, as such it undermines virtually all elements of social evolution. Current world military expenditures is running about 1 trillion dollars per year with the US accounting for about 500 billion. I wonder what the world would be like if we were to apply those funds to the eradication of illiteracy, disease and poverty. To reflect on the words of John Lennon......."