Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: sylvester80 who wrote (186283)	5/7/2006 3:01:30 PM
From: GPS Info	Respond to of 281500

Your selfishness greed and hypocrisy DISGUSTS ME!!! Why do you choose to be disgusted - over and over again by Hawkmoon? There must be somewhere else where you might find solace.

To: sylvester80 who wrote (186283)	5/7/2006 8:02:38 PM
From: geode00	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Neither the likes of Hawkmoon or Maurice can comprehend socialism or communism or capitalism or any ism. None of them can (since no one on rightwing media has fed it to them yet) understand why sidewalks and national defense and fire departments and highways and stop signs and the like are part of the 'collective' good but health care is not. Heck, mumps have come back this year because a couple of people traveled around and infected other people. Gee. Our health is interconnected and a healthy population is part of the 'collective' good. DUH. Only rightwingers think that people are disposable and that when someone gets sick they can fall off the face of the earth for all they care. That's why rightwingers voted for the bankruptcy bill so as to punish people who get sick and get sucked into the misery-producing sick medical system. We have double the costs of anyone else in the world for medical care but are way down the list for health ---- how does that work to warm the hearts of supposed efficiency-loving capitalists? The systems are broken. Rightwingers amazingly totally ignore the 200,000 (!!!!) deaths caused by the medical 'care' (LOL) system in the US every year. That's a stunning number. It's absurd that things that are obviously part of everyone's life and that can be more efficiently and effectively administered by the government instead of by, say, the monopolistic thuggery of the AMA, IS NOT administered by the government. Rightwingers are the truly evil people on earth. They spread misery and destruction everywhere they travel.

To: sylvester80 who wrote (186283)	5/8/2006 12:54:51 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

The majority of high paying jobs have been exported to India and China for cents on the dollar. Any were the Indians and Chinese able to provide sufficient highly skilled people to attract these corporations? And how is this different from when corporations would relocate from urban manufacturing centers to locations in rural agricultural states? The world changes Sly.. Competition drives productivity and the US is still one of the most productive economies in the world. Which is WHY, as I stated, the Federal and State governments have the VESTED INTEREST in ensuring that their constituency (voters) are provided the opportunities to retrain and increase their skill sets. The time when people could look forward to having a "cradle to grave" job is over. We're in a world where technology is dropping the borders and opening opportunities for other countries to participate on an equal basis. But ONE THING THIS COUNTRY HAS AND WILL LIKELY RETAIN, is the environment in which entrepreneurial and self-driven and innovative individuals can achieve their dreams of marketing new products. And now we have the entire world to market to, so long as @ssholes like you don't succeed in extinguishing that light of inspiration and personal reward. Yes.. you cannot remain an unskilled worker in today's economy and hope to have job security. But more and more we're seeing foreign corporations locating here because they understand that they have to move their manufacturing operations to the markets in which they hope to sell their products. Btw, if you look at the recent history of Japan, they suffered a similiar situation. Many of the electronics manufacturing jobs that once exist in Japan were moved to Malaysia and Thailand. But they STILL like to have Japanese mid-level managers in charge of those operations. Which means that assembly line workers need retraining to function as foremen and supervisors. It also means that they might need to locate outside of their countries in order to obtain work.. It's unstoppable, minus people like yourself lifting trade barriers and instituting a trade war from your protectionist agenda. And one of the results of the last major trade war that this world saw was WWII.. They ALL have nationalised health care. You know. The kind that MOST AMERICANS ARE WITHOUT!!!! Boy.. it sure doesn't seem to stop those illegal aliens from receiving health care for their families whenever they need it. NO HOSPITAL, to my knowledge, is permitted to turn away a patient in need of medical care, no matter they have insurance or not. Or the Bush prescription drug plan that makes the elderly pay 200-400% more for drugs than Europeans pay. Ok.. I'm going to admit that I've been gone for two years and this is not a topic that I've paid much attention to until I recently had to purchase my own health care coverage (which costs me $150/month). But let me start off by stating that I don't trust your statistics. Because if my co-pay requirement in Europe is $1/prescription equivalent, and I have to pay $4/prescription in the US, that's a 400% increase, but hardly exorbinant or bankrupting. But I firmly believe that ANY medical care system must have a co-pay requirement that prevents a "tragedy of the commons" situation from developing that over-stresses the health care system. Secondly, I would find it hard to believe that the average HMO would overpay Drug manufacturers for prescription drugs since such costs directly hit their bottom line. Privatized medical providers have a profit incentive that necessitates providing the required service in the most efficient and cost-effective manner, while ALSO BEING COGNIZANT THAT THEY MIGHT BE SUED if their level of care is inadequate. You can't really sue the government in the same manner.. at least not without GREAT DIFFICULTY. Again, acknowleging my ignorance on the matter (although I suspect you are EVEN MORE IGNORANT, if not moronic because you're incapable of understanding the issues involved), I did a few quick net queries and ran across this article: medicalprogresstoday.com Studies like this one also neglect to mention that, thanks to its laissez-faire approach to prescription drug prices, the U.S. also has the largest market for generic drugs (about half of U.S. prescriptions are for generics), and U.S. generic drugs are cheaper than they are in Europe. ... Indeed, Patricia Danzon, a health economist at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School of Business, estimated last year that “netting out exchange rate movements, Canadian [drug prices] are only 14 percent lower than U.S. prices.” And a study cited in the article seems to take issue with your assertions: hc.wharton.upenn.edu Furthermore, why are so many European Phamaceutical companies and researchers moving their R&D operations to the US? Major European drug makers--such as Aventis, Novartis, and GlaxoSmithKline--have shifted significant portions of their research operations from the Continent to the U.S. and beyond. Human talent is following the research money: Some 400,000 European science and technology graduates now live in the United States, with thousands more leaving every year. heartland.org And the other kind that becomes insolvent by 2018. And what will happen if we go to a FULLY NATIONALIZED health care system? How long will THAT remain solvent? Do you have ANY CONCEPT of the unfunded entitlement liabilities that European economies are facing? cato.org Unfunded liabilities in France are 200% of their GDP. In Germany it's on the order of 150% of GDP. aph.gov.au So much for your "Socialist" Utopia.. More and more of these governments are looking to privatized pension and social welfare programs. Bottom line though.. the issues are very complex. But despite this complexity, MARKET FORCES and HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY MUST BE ADHERED TO or financial disaster will be the result. Hawk