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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (186315)	5/8/2006 10:19:39 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hydrogen is a disaster... People in the energy world have formalized this measure of “energy return on energy invested” with an acronym, EROEI, made up of the first letter of each word in the phrase. So the EROEI of the gas made from the oil squirting out of the ground in our front yard is 125:1. NO SH*T.. AS IT STANDS CURRENTLY!!!! Because we lack an effective and efficient means of producing Hydrogen. Currently it's produced from natural gas, taking a fossil fuel and extracting a single gas from it. But the ONLY truly efficient manner of producing Hydrogen is by extracting its two atoms from every molecule of H2O, where 2/3rds of the total molecule is energy. But that takes electricity.. cheap and plentiful electricity where generation during off-peak times is directed toward it's production. And the only logical solution is nuclear or Hydro. But Hydro has considerable impacts upon the environment, risks to populations downstream should an earthquake, or structural failure occur and bust the damn. Nuclear power, admittedly, was less desirable before the "pebble bed" technology became available. But I really believe it borders upon negligence that we're not pursuing it now. But don't misunderstand my position. If people want to invest in windmills and solar, then so be it. They will govern their business decisions and investments against market forces of supply and demand. But the sun only shines 12 hours (at most) of the day, and sometimes the wind doesn't blow at all. So they are NOT reliable sources of power. I'm a pragmatist.. Which means I'm for whatever works. Hawk

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (186315)	5/9/2006 2:26:13 AM
From: Dennis O'Bell	Respond to of 281500

Hydrogen is a disaster... For an entertaining read, check out this book on Lockheed Martin's Skunkworks advanced devo project. It has a section on their attempts to use liquid hydrogen :-))) It's a wonder they survived. amazon.com Lockheed's Advanced Development Project has set standards for the aerospace industry for half a century. Under its presiding genius, Clarence "Kelly" Johnson, the Skunk Works produced America's first jet fighter, the world's most successful spy plane (U-2), the first three-times-the-speed-of-sound surveillance aircraft and the F-117A stealth fighter. Rich was Johnson's right-hand man and succeeded him as director in 1975, retiring in 1990. In an entertaining style, the authors describe Johnson's tyrannical managerial style, his thorny but productive relationship with the Air Force and the stealth-technology breakthrough that revolutionized military aviation. Writing with freelancer Jonas, Rich also recounts Skunk Works' failures, including experiments with liquid hydrogen as a propellant and spy-drone flights over China's remote nuclear test facilities. He has much to say about the Defense Department bureaucracy and warns, "Everyone in the defense industry knows that bureaucratic regulations, controls, and paperwork are at critical mass... and... in danger of destroying the entire system." This is a significant book for those interested in aerospace research and development.