Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Non-Tech : $2 or higher gas - Can ethanol make a comeback? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Edscharp who wrote (1249)	5/20/2006 2:39:44 PM
From: elmatador	Respond to of 2801

Petrobras pioneers vegoil diesel mix technology Fri May 19, 2006 7:58 PM BST Email This Article \| Print This Article \| RSS [-] Text [+] By Andrei Khalip RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil (Reuters) - Brazil's state oil company Petrobras said on Friday it would introduce a pioneering low-sulphur diesel producing technology involving vegetable oils at two refineries by 2008. Petroleo Brasileiro SA Supplies Director Paulo Roberto Costa told a news conference the so-called H-Bio technology will combine diesel fractions from distillation, cracking and retarded coking with soy oil and hydrogen as raw materials to churn out high-quality diesel with mineral fuel qualities. "It's a groundbreaking technology and we've asked for patents. Vegetable oil substitutes diesel fractions and adds value ... It's a revolution for Brazil, and I'm sure it's going to spread in the world from here," Costa said. "We'll be planting diesel from now on. It's a very positive marriage between agriculture and oil," he said, adding that the plan should give "an extraordinary boost" to the farm sector in world commodity powerhouse Brazil. Brazil is already a world pioneer in mass use of sugar cane-based ethanol in cars and in blends with gasoline and some sector experts say it could with time become a "Saudi Arabia" of organic fuels as the world looks increasingly for alternatives to petroleum. Costa said the high quality diesel plan, which should raise Brazil's output and allow the country to reduce imports of the fuel, would run parallel with regular biodiesel output programs and traditional petroleum diesel production. Brazil will blend 2 percent biodiesel with all normal diesel starting 2008. Petrobras has already tested the process at its Regap refinery in Minas Gerais state, using a blend of soy oil as much as 18 percent jointly with mineral raw materials and hydrogen in the hydrotreatment unit. "Economically, the test was very positive, showing a very interesting price composition. Basically, it was cheaper (than normal process)," Costa said. Petrobras plans to use 10 percent soy oil in the two refineries where the technology will be installed next year and in 2008. The program should be expanded to five refineries in the following few years, with tentative vegetable oil usage of 5 percent. That could rise depending on the availability of vegetable oils. Ten percent non-mineral oil usage at two refineries requires 256,000 cubic meters of soy oil per year, which makes up about 10 percent of Brazil's soy oil exports. At the same time, that would reduce diesel imports by 10 percent of last year's total of 2.5 million cubic meters, Costa said. Brazil exports gasoline but is short on diesel. As opposed to biodiesel, which requires special transesterification plants and additional storage capacities, the new process can be carried out at existing refineries next to soy producing areas, and only needs additional amounts of hydrogen, which is already used in the process. The refineries in the southern states of Parana and Rio Grande do Sul, which are both big soy producers, will be the first to have the technology in addition to Regap, where the tests have been conducted. Costa said other vegetable oils, such as cotton, palm and sunflower, can be used in the process, but soy oil is the favourite because Brazil produces huge quantities of it. Last year, it produced 5.6 million cubic meters of soy oil. "The prices will have to be agreed with producers. It's a new thing for us and for them... We're already following the prices of ethanol, now we'll monitor soy prices in Chicago, too," Costa said.

To: Edscharp who wrote (1249)	5/20/2006 3:50:18 PM
From: Ish	Respond to of 2801

<<True, ethanol is less powerful than gas, but eventually ethanol prices should cost significantly less than gasoline.>> That gap closes quite a bit when vehicles are built to run only alcohol. If you up the compression the alcohol is darn close to gas but if you put any gas in it will blow the engine. BTW, the Indy 500 will run pure alcohol next year and the cars will still be going 220 mph.

To: Edscharp who wrote (1249)	5/31/2006 6:45:39 AM
From: robert b furman	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 2801

HI Eds, E85 is 17.2 gallons of gasoline added to 100 gallons of alcohol. GM has 2.9 million Flex Fuel vehicles out there (of a total 5 million vehicles)in North America. E85 sells for about a 60 cent discount to regular gas as the mpg is 1 - 1 1/2 less - even though its octane rating is higher. Kroger has announced it will install 64 E-85 pupms in Tx by yearend.It will have 200 by the end of 07. Ethanol E 85 is not to be confused with gasohol ( a 5-10% blend of gas and much less alcohol. If half of the corn crop went to ethanol - it would displace about 15% of oil used for gas. A change that large would greatly modify demand,but in the long run global demand will grow 1 to 1-1/2% per year for the foeseeable future (as India and China grow their middle class). There currently are 35 ethanol plants of mostly 40-50 million gallons per year under construction on going right now. It is a part of the solution. A close friend of mine in Alaska told me 3 weeks ago that Alaska will have a natural gas pipeline that crosses Canada and possibly goes as far as Chicago - this is a done deal. He also said Anwr WILL get opened and it will be the largest deposit of oil ever discovered and we are talking about Saudi Arabia. Just talk mind you but Alaska stands ready and willing to get filthy rich selling oil to the lower 48. Bob