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To: grusum who wrote (11719)	5/21/2006 6:36:20 PM
From: LLCF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 78428

Heisenberg: en.wikipedia.org This guy is a good read for those wanting to extrapolate on that: theosophy-nw.org "Wholeness and the Implicate Order" is a must read IMO. DAK

To: grusum who wrote (11719)	5/21/2006 7:38:11 PM
From: koan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 78428

I think so. No one really understand it-lol?

To: grusum who wrote (11719)	5/21/2006 8:14:32 PM
From: koan	Respond to of 78428

The greatest debate of the last century, unbeknownst, to most people was over the HUP. Einstein never believed in the HUP and really did not much care for the quantum world even though he was one of the discoverors. He always thought there was another underlying principle and so his famous (and incorrect saying) "god does not play dice with the unverse". That in fact, is exactly what god does. The debate took place in the 1930's between Einstein and his buddies and Neils Bohr, Shrodenger, Heisenberg, Paul Dirac and maybe Wheeler?? One or two of those may be incorrect. Neils Bohr was always the leader, I felt, and a stickler for getting definitions correct. He is the one who insisted all you could refer to quantum physics as was "phenomenon" and provided the "copenhagen Interpretation": "No independent reality is attributed to quantum objects themselves. There is simply no such thing as as an electron or photon in the absense of measurement-they do not exist". "The fundamental units of our of our existence are not atoms, electrons or photons but phenomena". Anyway what the debate centered on, was whether one could know both the position and momentum of something exactly. They answer is it is impossible. And the more one knows about the position the less about the momentum. Heisenberg: " whenever we make a measurement, then the product of the uncertainty in position and the uncertainty in momentum must always be equal to or greate than the number of planck's constant (h) divided by 2II. "The Uncertainty principle restricts our ability to meassure not only position and momentum simultanously, but also other complementary properties like energy and time." John Joe Mafadden One can never know for sure the position of any particle or where it might go 100%. But the reason I mentioned vacuums and the HUP is that 1) vacuums have intrinsic energy and can borrow energy from one place and then repay it; and virtual particles are always poping in and out fo existance everywhere including vacuums and if they can get energy they become real. Like vacuum energy or Higgs field. Cheeers Also, it was Hawkings who used the HUP to explain that all black holes will eventually evaporate.