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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (187120)	5/23/2006 8:45:58 PM
From: neolib	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

The Mediterranean was a salt basin, well below sea level, when it was cut off from the Atlantic 5 or 6 mya. So it is a rather special case of rising sea levels. The Black Sea floods are an example in human time scales, as are the ones in the area I live in, eastern Oregon, from Montana ice dams breaking in the last ice age. Its kind of neat, there are a few isolated granite boulders hundreds of feet up on hillsides around here, in an area which is all basalt. They are thought to have been transported during the floods on icebergs from the granitic glaciers of Montana. Oddly enough the drying of the Mediterranean is thought to have caused global cooling due to affecting ocean salinity, so perhaps we should block off Gibralter again. :)

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (187120)	5/23/2006 10:59:50 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

whatever the cause of global warming, we have to do what we can to prevent it or at least slow it down. I agree with this statement. But it's like a doctor blaming that lung cancer on the patient's 1/2 pack a day smoking habit and telling him to quit, without recognizing that the patient works in an environment that spews those sulfur fumes, which is the the REAL problem. "Well sir.. we may have caught it in time, if we act drastically with a treatment program.. We're going to put you on Chemo and check you regularly to see if the tumour is receding.. Oh yes.. you're fine to go back to work". Just don't overdo it" We should not misdiagnose what's causing global climate change. We might discover that no matter how much we cut back our emmissions, it might not be enough to prevent it. And by that time, it might be too late to counteract it's effects (assuming we accept the ethical argument that we have the right to deliberately attempt to counter natural global warming). Hawk

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (187120)	5/23/2006 11:12:28 PM
From: stockman_scott	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Fox News continues to MISlead about Gore's new Global Warming movie... thinkprogress.org

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (187120)	6/4/2006 7:32:58 PM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi Sun Tzu; Re those rising water levels and the submerged cities... The ocean rises very slowly, so when a city is submerged, it gets submerged slowly. In the process of submerging, the oceans and the beaches scour the coast so well that it is a minor miracle that anything manages to make it safely underwater. As you saw in the previous links, this did happen off of India, but that is a relatively calm ocean. In addition, back during the glacial maximum, the temperature of the oceans was a lot less, so there were fewer storms. As the oceans have heated up, the number of storms has increased, and that means that it has become harder and harder for ruins to survive submergence. At that time, the oceans were somewhat smaller and a lot less stormy, and it was much easier to explore. So there are hints that the ancients had better maps than the early moderns. In addition to the eroding / burying action of the beaches, it's a heck of a lot easier to do archeology on land than 300 feet underwater. A good introduction to this stuff is the book "Underworld" by Graham Hancock: amazon.com Re: "On a related note...it makes zero difference whether or not global warming is man-made. You are implying an argument similar to a steel worker who gets lung cancer from exposure to sulfuric fumes and says he should not quit smoking because that was not the primary cause of his cancer...whatever the cause of global warming, we have to do what we can to prevent it or at least slow it down." No, it cannot be at all stopped. It's been going on for 20,000 years. If it weren't for civilization, we'd probably have already passed the maximum temp and be back on our way to an ice age. Believe me, if the ice age were coming back now, you'd be complaining about that a hell of a lot louder than global warming. The basic fact is that this planet has a long term climate over which man has considerable influence, but over which man has almost no control. If we don't burn the fossil fuels now, then someone else will somewhere else on the planet. If we don't dig the fuels up now, then someone else will later. Over the long term, I expect that we will see new technologies make fossil fuels less competitive and we will eventually reach some sort of steady state. At that time, the CO2 will begin dropping and people will want to do something to keep the temperatures from dropping. Or do you think that they will want year round ice 500 feet thick on New York City. -- Carl