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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (187477)	5/26/2006 12:46:32 PM
From: michael97123	Respond to of 281500

The historical argument gets neither side anywhere. It's always about facts on the ground. The pals are always 25 years behind the curve in accepting the last best offer. Its time for them to accept the next best deal. Folks here may not like that and may not like the cavalier way in which you and i keep saying it, but thats the way it will be.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (187477)	5/26/2006 12:53:48 PM
From: neolib	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

No.. what it means is that any political settlement has to include negotiation by all parties, as well as appropriate compensation for any land that is ceded by one party to the dispute to the other. I don't see you being consistent here. Sometimes you advocate the rights of conquest. Do you actually believe that or not? So take the compensation. Should Israel pay compensation for occupying it for the last 40-50 years, or should the Pals pay compensation for getting it back? I see some merit on both sides of that coin. Just how far back do we go in determining who has the right to a specific piece of geography?? Again, we need a consistent answer. What I see in the ME, is that ones bias for one side or the other causes one to argue for ancient or modern rights. In the case of Israel, I have seen people argue for the 2000 year rights as trumping the Arab 100's OR for the 40-50 year rights of occupation trumping the slightly older Arab rights. Be consistent. It strikes me that Israelis want to control that border until such a time they can be assured that the PA leadership will not exploit it to transits weapons and terrorists to be deployed against Israel. Fine, control a narrow military buffer strip, say 1/2 mile wide, and control the entry/exit points. Its the farmland and water I see as the issue. Israel's policy in that regard is simply gas on the fire. Again, I have zero sympathy for that behavior, they get what they deserve. Alter the policy to one of strict security concerns with clearly stated and implemented goals of no land aspirations, and my sympathies will switch 100% to support Israeli security with zero sympathy for any continued Pal violence. It is that simple. Just as the election of Hamas was a hallmark of Palestinian culture. Same for ANC in South Africa. What is your view on them? I keep asking, but you keep dodging. How was the violence in southern Africa, which resulted in the ANC coming to power any different (other than it killed more whites both in absolute numbers and normalized than anything in the Pal uprisings has done to Jews)? It resulted in the ANC obtaining their goals. Why are you so sure Hamas won't in the long run? The meek don't inherit the earth, or in may cases even get their property back. If I can't control the hostility of my neighbors throwing rocks and eggs at my house, and the police are unwilling to assist, then the next best thing is a very high fence and the willingness to kick their @sses when they threaten my family. The problem comes when the house you live in belonged to the grandparents of those currently throwing rocks at you. You continue to ignore that aspect of the problem. There is the additional long-term problem that your neighbor reproduces at a higher rate than you do, and further, there are significant barriers preventing their genetics and your genetics from mingling in future generations, so the problem can't be solved that way. You must address all these aspects in looking for a solution that will work. What I'm seeing proposed fails to address these issues realistically, so I don't seem much hope of success.